GPS Location created and Shown

[sinus]

Hi guys
Maybe one of you know an answer on my general question in relation with GPS.
Or maybe there is simply not a real, correct answer possible.

1) I stay just before the eiffel tower in Paris and make pics of it. So the GPS is clear for me, although the Tower is maybe 10 or 20 m away, for me the GPS is there, where I stay. (otherway I must change the correct GPS a lot, if I stay here and there for a better view.

2) Problem: Now I go on the tower and makes several images,

a) e.g. from a beautiful sky, but far away, maybe some unknown landscape at the bottom of the image

b) I take photos from other interesting villages or towns, far away, may 5 KM away or 30, I do not know.

My camera does not have a built GPS, hence I want add the GPS with IMatch.
In such cases, what do I do, how do you solve such situations?

As far as I know, in the map of IMatch I have to choose the "marker for the image direction". With that I can click on a shown destination, like the Louvre of Paris.
If I know this, all is fine, I can create with IMatch the GPS, where I stand to take the pic (Eiffel Tower) and I can create the shown place, like the Louvre (maybe this is not really possible from the tower, I do not know this).


But where I click with the "marker for the image direction" in case of a far sky with a unknown skyline?
Or nice images, from villages, or small towns, but I do not know them, what do you in such cases?

Maybe there is not at real solution, then it would be interesting, do you simply set the marker in the middle of the direction, where you think, it should be there somewhere?

I add two attachements, one for a sky and the second for an image with a sky.
I have added in the last image some red rectangle, if I choose one of them, the result (shown location) is of course different.
What would you do? 

[herman]

[...]
What would you do?

I don't use GPS at all, at least not after the fact.
But my iPhone camera uses GPS (although I could switch it off).
Look at what the phone does: it records the position of the phone, does not know anything about the subject....

[JohnZeman]

Markus my cameras do not have GPS either so I use the Geotag Photos app on my cell phone to record GPS for me while I'm traveling.  Works great, at the end of the day (or trip) I tell the app to upload the tracklog to Dropbox and then I load that tracklog in IMatch and geocode my images.  Fast, easy, and it works with any of my cameras.

In rare situations when I don't have a tracklog available and have to manually geocode my images with IMatch I generally choose a location on the map that shows where the subject of the photo is.  Not a perfect system but it works for me.

[Jingo]

Markus - long ago I purchased a dedicated GPS tracker device which I carry in my backpack while traveling.  I link the date/time to the camera date/time and set it to log a position every 90 seconds.  I have found it can run for almost a full day in the mode and so long as I remember to charge it each evening in the hotel - I find it quite useful. 

Back at home, I link the "GPS points" to the images using either the device software or geosetter (haven't tried this with Imatch yet) and voila....

With the recent advances in phone battery life and portable charging units, I will probably just similar software to John going forward - so long as I have cell signal!

[jch2103]

I've used several ways to add GPS data over time, including dedicated GPS module for Nikon cameras (3rd party), dedicated GPS app (some are better than others, esp re accuracy and battery draw; because these use the GPS signal you don't actually need cell coverage so it can work OK in very remote locations), SnapBridge (OK, but some drawbacks), dedicated GPS map program (starting with GeoSetter, now using Map module in IMatch) and dedicated GPS unit (currently I use my Garmin 935 sports watch; advantage: it's always with me, disadvantage: like with other GPS units, you have to add a workflow step to sync a GPS track to the photos - I currently use IMatch). Each option has advantages and disadvantages.

The non-equipment option is just to use the Map module in IMatch to add location coordinates (assuming you know where you took the photos). You don't need to add the location shown, unless you want to show that the image is of a different location than where you took the photo. If you do want to add the 'shown' location, you can zoom the map to wherever you want, even for a distant object. It works pretty well as long as you know the locations in question, although the bigger your monitor the easier it is to do this (and you can make the Map module window larger if needed).

Let me know if you have questions about any of these options.

[JohnZeman]

With the recent advances in phone battery life and portable charging units, I will probably just similar software to John going forward - so long as I have cell signal!

Andy I'm almost positive the cell phone doesn't need a cellular signal to record GPS, it works like a dedicated GPS data logger.

I've been in some extremely remote locations out west that are nowhere near a cell tower but my logging has always worked with the Geotag app.

[sinus]

Oh, thank you all for your really interesting answers.
GPS seems to be used more and more, and yes, even my small Sony HX 90 V has a built - in GPS.

I think now that my question was a little naive.
There is probably no good answer at all.

Because the "problem" I have is not the current location, but which GPS data should I enter for the picture I really took?

For example, if I take a photo with a telephoto lens of the mountain range in Switzerland, Eiger-Mönch-Jungfrau, then I want to enter the GPS data of these 3 mountains in addition to the GPS data from where I take the photo.
Because these mountains can be photographed for example from Bern, from Thun or Spiez, yes, even from Germany.

But someone who sees the mountains on the photo probably wants to know first what kind of mountains they are and therefore the GPS data should be from there.

So my question was rather, what do I do when I have a picture like my second one (attached here again)?

The photo shows a lake with different villages. And small hills.
Now when I want to click the GPS point in IMatch for the GPS show data, I asked myself, WHERE should I click.
Do I click on the lake?
Or on a hill?
Or on a village?

And then IMatch takes this point and maybe shows
Alpnach-Town, 88 Main Street.

Although the picture doesn't show this street in real (large) size.

Or what do photographers who take panoramas do?
Which point do they take as shown-GPS?

I have no idea and honestly, no idea.

I think in such a case I will just click on a point in the middle of the picture with the map from IMatch, so that the GPS data of the real shown picture is the center of the photo.
In the case of this picture here, maybe the best thing I'll do is just click on the lake itself.

Thanks for your posts, really interesting!

If you do want to add the 'shown' location, you can zoom the map to wherever you want, even for a distant object. It works pretty well as long as you know the locations in question, although the bigger your monitor the easier it is to do this (and you can make the Map module window larger if needed).

Yep, like I tried to explain above, I want show the GPS - shown - data, but what I should enter for pictures, like in my case (attachement), what GPS for a Panoramas?

[Carlo Didier]

I have been using my smartphone for years now to get GPS tracking logs. I later combine those with the images with Geosetter or directly when I transfer the images to my PC using Breeze Downloader Pro. I just have to first get the GPS log on my PC (not easy to find a GPS logging app which allows the creation of GPX files on the smartphone which can then be copied to the PC via USB, because I often don't have internet connection when travelling).

This sets the coordinates from where the images were taken. Most often that's close enough to use also as the coordinates for the location shown. If not, I enter those manually.

[ubacher]

I think the problem that the GPS location is the location the image was taken and not the location
of the scene pictured was somewhat addressed by adding the direction of view which some cameras
also record.

As for me I have a What it shows category (besides the Location category) which I use for images where the distinction is important.

I think this issue appears mostly with photographing in the mountains: Taking a shot of a village from the top of the mountain
vs. taking a shot of the mountain from the village below - for neither is the camera location particularly interesting.

[Mees Dekker]

Geosetter is also great for this. It has several ways to assign GPS data to your pictures.

You can "bulk assign" GPS data from a tracklog (recorded in some way by some device like a GPS logger or a mobile phone).

I created some favorites in Geosetter, for instance to assign GPS data to pictures in my own garden. Very convenient.

And of course, you can assign any GPS data to each individual picture.

After assigning GPS data to files, Geosetter saves all new data to the changed pictures/files.

[Jingo]

I've used several ways to add GPS data over time, including dedicated GPS module for Nikon cameras (3rd party), dedicated GPS app (some are better than others, esp re accuracy and battery draw; because these use the GPS signal you don't actually need cell coverage so it can work OK in very remote locations), SnapBridge (OK, but some drawbacks), dedicated GPS map program (starting with GeoSetter, now using Map module in IMatch) and dedicated GPS unit (currently I use my Garmin 935 sports watch; advantage: it's always with me, disadvantage: like with other GPS units, you have to add a workflow step to sync a GPS track to the photos - I currently use IMatch). Each option has advantages and disadvantages.

The non-equipment option is just to use the Map module in IMatch to add location coordinates (assuming you know where you took the photos). You don't need to add the location shown, unless you want to show that the image is of a different location than where you took the photo. If you do want to add the 'shown' location, you can zoom the map to wherever you want, even for a distant object. It works pretty well as long as you know the locations in question, although the bigger your monitor the easier it is to do this (and you can make the Map module window larger if needed).

Let me know if you have questions about any of these options.

John - I had NO IDEA you could use GPS without cellular data!!      Thx for pointing that out... time to go research some apps and play around!  When we area able to travel more safely again (hopefully!)... this will be quite helpful....

[sinus]

I've used several ways to add GPS data over time, including dedicated GPS module for Nikon cameras (3rd party), dedicated GPS app (some are better than others, esp re accuracy and battery draw; because these use the GPS signal you don't actually need cell coverage so it can work OK in very remote locations), SnapBridge (OK, but some drawbacks), dedicated GPS map program (starting with GeoSetter, now using Map module in IMatch) and dedicated GPS unit (currently I use my Garmin 935 sports watch; advantage: it's always with me, disadvantage: like with other GPS units, you have to add a workflow step to sync a GPS track to the photos - I currently use IMatch). Each option has advantages and disadvantages.

The non-equipment option is just to use the Map module in IMatch to add location coordinates (assuming you know where you took the photos). You don't need to add the location shown, unless you want to show that the image is of a different location than where you took the photo. If you do want to add the 'shown' location, you can zoom the map to wherever you want, even for a distant object. It works pretty well as long as you know the locations in question, although the bigger your monitor the easier it is to do this (and you can make the Map module window larger if needed).

Let me know if you have questions about any of these options.

John - I had NO IDEA you could use GPS without cellular data!!      Thx for pointing that out... time to go research some apps and play around!  When we area able to travel more safely again (hopefully!)... this will be quite helpful....

I am not sure, if I understand correct.
But the signal for GPS, I think, does come from at least one or several satellite (with my fenix-watch I can choose GPS or Glonass, I heard, now also Galilio-satellite is possible.)
And this has nothing to do with cellular data.

I guess, John is correct with this and Andy, fine, we all lern more and more.

Huuuh, I will be very wise, if I am once over 60 years old ... not to speak from 80 and  more 

[mopperle]

And this has nothing to do with cellular data.

Correct, got nothing to do with cellular data. A good site how GPS is working:
https://gisgeography.com/trilateration-triangulation-gps/

And one thing to add: in case you should process raw data including GPS data and convert them into jpeg (or png) make sure that those GPS data are not deleted. E.g. Lightroom gives you the option to do so.

[Mario]

Geosetter is also great for this. It has several ways to assign GPS data to your pictures.
You can "bulk assign" GPS data from a tracklog (recorded in some way by some device like a GPS logger or a mobile phone).

IMatch also has direct GPS track log import, in the Map Panel. It can also visualize your track in the Map Panel etc.
See: GPX Track Log Import

[sinus]

Hm, I guess, I have asked wrong.

I can ask easier 

What would you write for GPS-data on a picture like this (attachement)?

[mopperle]

I always enter the location from where I have taken the picture.
I think you can not write multiple GPS data into one file. If you want to remember the names of the mountains, I suggest to make an additional picture with your smartphone, enhancing the data with the app PeakFinder:
https://www.peakfinder.org/de/mobile/

[hluxem]

Like many others, I always use the location the picture was taken for the GPS data. That's the easiest and for me the most consistent way.
For me that's the enough information, but I could see adding categories with landmarks shown if I would need to look for that kind of thing often. 
Looking at all the mountains in the picture, categories would really not help me much to identify the different peaks.
For this image, text annotations to mark the peaks would probably be real nice :>).

Thanks for posting the link to the PeakFinder app. I have to try that out.

Heiner

[mastodon]

It is generally easy to fill the GPS Location created tag. Not on plane or under the Earth.

But the GPS Location Shown tag is very hard to set, if it was not taken by the camera. AND I don't think, it's worth the time. It is mucs easier to use the Headline, Title or other tags to make a description, what is in the picture (Location Shown).

[herman]

Hm, I guess, I have asked wrong.
[...]

Agreed 

In my opinion there is only one location unambiguous, that is the location the camera was when the shot was taken.
I would enter all other information in categories or keywords.

[jch2103]

John - I had NO IDEA you could use GPS without cellular data!!      Thx for pointing that out... time to go research some apps and play around!  When we are able to travel more safely again (hopefully!)... this will be quite helpful....

One caution about using a GPS app: sometimes the phone can report a cell tower location instead of the GPS location! (I've had to edit some GPX tracks to delete these 'bad' locations.) You can avoid this by going into airplane mode (making sure you still get the GPS signal), but at the risk of no longer having phone access. Also there are trade-offs with GPS apps between accuracy and battery consumption. Those are reasons I mostly rely on my Garmin watch these days for location data.

General note: I haven't used GeoSetter for several years because the IMatch Map module does what I need (including, as Mario said, importing GPX track information).

But the signal for GPS, I think, does come from at least one or several satellite (with my fenix-watch I can choose GPS or Glonass, I heard, now also Galilio-satellite is possible.)
And this has nothing to do with cellular data.

Yes, depending on your specific Garmin watch, you can choose which Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) system you want to use. As I said above, the advantages of the watch are that I always have it with me, it's proven more accurate than phone apps and it's very battery-efficient. I use a free program, Foxrunner 64, that I found on the Garmin forum (currently unavailable due to a ransomware attack on Garmin!) that takes the Garmin FIT files I download from my watch to my laptop and translates them to GPX files that I save in the same folder as the photos I've taken in that session. Some extra work, but easy once you've set it up.

What would you write for GPS-data on a picture like this (attachement)?

See the ever-useful Help entry at https://www.photools.com/help/imatch/#panel_geo.htm, specifically 'Destination Coordinates ('Location Shown')'.
If you routinely set the GPS coordinates for the image, you're halfway done. It's then pretty easy to add destination coordinates in the Map panel. It even shows the field of view based on the focal length of the lens you've used.

For panoramas, you can include only one destination coordinate set, as mopperle noted. In that case, I'd assign a destination in the middle of the panorama. And as other folks have noted, you could add more information including annotations (I hadn't thought of doing that, but could be useful in some cases).

[jch2103]

I always enter the location from where I have taken the picture.
I think you can not write multiple GPS data into one file. If you want to remember the names of the mountains, I suggest to make an additional picture with your smartphone, enhancing the data with the app PeakFinder:
https://www.peakfinder.org/de/mobile/

Thanks for the link to the app; I didn't know about it. I see it's got worldwide mountain information.

[sinus]

If you routinely set the GPS coordinates for the image, you're halfway done. It's then pretty easy to add destination coordinates in the Map panel. It even shows the field of view based on the focal length of the lens you've used.

For panoramas, you can include only one destination coordinate set, as mopperle noted. In that case, I'd assign a destination in the middle of the panorama. And as other folks have noted, you could add more information including annotations (I hadn't thought of doing that, but could be useful in some cases).

Thanks.
I do this of course, use the IMatch Map to set the shown coordinate.
My question was, where to set the shown coordinate.

In the middle of the image? Or left, right?
Or point on the scene (see, mountain, building), what is best seen?

Your note (and the one of mopperle) about panorama is what I thought also.

Hence I think, at the moment there is no real possibility to set such a GPS correct.
If I see a big mountain or building, than it is easy: create a gps for the point of the camera and create a second gps for the shown gps.
Easy with IMatch and good.
In case of a "broader shown" (like panorama) use the shown gps somewhere on the image in the middle or on an important "area" like a mountoin or a building (Tour Eiffel, White house, London Tower ...).

Thanks for all your comments. 

[vbt]

As well as adding the gps of the camera location where the photo was taken you could also add the direction the camera was pointed.

Then you could use Google Earth to go to that location and rotate your view to replicate the view in the photo (and from Google Earth work out what you are looking at). (To some extent you can also do this in IMatch but in 2D rather than 3D.)

However the last time I looked there weren't really many good ways of adding the direction automatically to the photo. This should be easy for most mobile phones that have a built in compass but I don't think many phones do this (although you can get camera apps that will, assuming your mobile phone has a compass). Obviously you can add the direction, e.g. in IMatch, later if you know it. Nevertheless I think it is a good method for identifying distant features.

I have been told by a friend that if you upload photos to google photos (or the Apple equivalent) they will add tags for geographical features (e.g. buildings) in your photos. I have not tried this myself and suspect it will only work for locations with distinctive features that lots of other people have previously photographed.

[jch2103]

However the last time I looked there weren't really many good ways of adding the direction automatically to the photo. This should be easy for most mobile phones that have a built in compass but I don't think many phones do this (although you can get camera apps that will, assuming your mobile phone has a compass). Obviously you can add the direction, e.g. in IMatch, later if you know it. Nevertheless I think it is a good method for identifying distant features.

I know there are some add-on GPS devices for cameras that will store compass direction as well as location. The practical issue issue for doing this with phones (as well as for devices like my Garmin GPS-enabled sports watch) is that the device doesn't necessarily point in the direction the camera is pointing...