Metadate syncronsiation problem if JPG was changed outside Imatch

[voronwe]

I have the following workflow (probably not the best, but currently no better one):

I have my RAW-Files in Lightroom and the finished JPGs in IMatch.

I do now add some Metadata to the JPGs, especially Keywords. I then write them to the Image.

Now I make a new Image from the RAW in Lightroom, with the same name. This one does of course not included the Keywords.

Now the Image is updated in IMatch and the Keywords are gone for this Image.

In Metadaten2 -> Schutz, I put all 3 entries to "Yes"
The Metadata stays if they were not stored in the File, but at the Moment they are stored, it is gone

Is there a way to save the Data in the following way:

If a MetaData-Entry in IMatch is Empty: Take the one from the file
But: If there is allready an Entry in IMatch, ignore the one from the Image, especially when it is Empty.


EDIT: But thinking about the settings: What is "Bestehende XMP-Daten schützen" good for? For me that sounded like the solution of my request:

"Wenn eine Datei neu eingelesen wird und für diese Datei bereits XMP-Daten in der Datenbank existieren, importiert IMatch nicht erneut die IPTC/EXIF/GPS-Daten aus der Bilddatei"

[Mario]

You are replacing the file containing the keywords with a file without keywords?
How is this supposed to work?

IMatch will re-import the new JPEG and replace the metadata in the database - unless you have protection on and unwritten metadata.
Also, with keywords there is a lot of synchronizing going on between XMP subject, legacy IPTC keywords and XMP hierarchical keywords.

Your workflow does not seem to make much sense to me.
Why do you replace existing files with metadata with files containing no metadata?

[voronwe]

Thanks for your fast answer

Your workflow does not seem to make much sense to me.
Why do you replace existing files with metadata with files containing no metadata?

It has omstly historical reasons. The point is that I never went happy with the DAM-functionallity of Lightroom, but it is a very good RAW-Converter. Obviously the best way would be to do the whole Metadata-setting at the RAW-Files in the beginning with IMatch, then load the files into Lightroom (I had the problem that when changing the Metadata with IMatch after Loading the files into Lightroom, Lightroom does not care about the Updates).

And sometimes I have the idea that an Image could be slightly better, so I make a new Version of it.

But it seems that the solution of my special case would be to not save the Metadata to the file, but keep them only in IMatch.


(sorry, the edit in the first posting was by mistake)

EDIT: But thinking about the settings: What is "Bestehende XMP-Daten schützen" good for? For me that sounded like the solution of my request:

"Wenn eine Datei neu eingelesen wird und für diese Datei bereits XMP-Daten in der Datenbank existieren, importiert IMatch nicht erneut die IPTC/EXIF/GPS-Daten aus der Bilddatei"

[Mario]

IMatch after Loading the files into Lightroom, Lightroom does not care about the Updates).

You have to explicitly trigger the metadata reload in Lr (there is a menu command for it).

If you apply the metadata to the RAW in IMatch, and make the JPG a version and enable metadata propagation, IMatch can copy metadata from the RAW to the versions you create automatically, including keywords.
See File Relations: Versioning and Propagation

[voronwe]

IMatch after Loading the files into Lightroom, Lightroom does not care about the Updates).

You have to explicitly trigger the metadata reload in Lr (there is a menu command for it).

In the end I also found it right now.
But as far as I can see, the Face-Recognition marks are not gone when I update the file in the way I described it. Only the Persons-Name in the Metadata.

Is this correct and is the reason for that, the those remarks are not stored in Metadata at all?

But, maybe, you missed my final question:
But thinking about the settings: What is "Bestehende XMP-Daten schützen" good for? For me that sounded like the solution of my request:

"Wenn eine Datei neu eingelesen wird und für diese Datei bereits XMP-Daten in der Datenbank existieren, importiert IMatch nicht erneut die IPTC/EXIF/GPS-Daten aus der Bilddatei"

Thanks a lot for your help and fast answer

[Mario]

But as far as I can see, the Face-Recognition marks are not gone when I update the file in the way I described it. Only the Persons-Name in the Metadata.

I don't understand. What are these marks and which person name do you mean? You update the file where and how?
Does Lr import the face data you have created in IMatch? Or do you fr in Lr and make IMatch import it?

Your workflow is really complicated.

But thinking about the settings: What is "Bestehende XMP-Daten schützen" good for? For me that sounded like the solution of my request:

This option protects unwritten metadata from accidentally being replaced when you modify a file in another application and IMatch is thus rescanning the file.
If you have written back the data in IMatch and then you later replace the file in Lr, wiping out the metadata in the file, nothing can protect you. Just don't use this kind of workflow.

[voronwe]

Hi Mario

But as far as I can see, the Face-Recognition marks are not gone when I update the file in the way I described it. Only the Persons-Name in the Metadata.

I don't understand. What are these marks and which person name do you mean? You update the file where and how?
Does Lr import the face data you have created in IMatch? Or do you fr in Lr and make IMatch import it?

I attached an example-file what I meant with "Marks" . I mean in this case the position and size of the green rectangles. Is this information stored in Metadata too?
(Please see this question independent from my workflow) (IMatch-face.png)

But thinking about the settings: What is "Bestehende XMP-Daten schützen" good for? For me that sounded like the solution of my request:

This option protects unwritten metadata from accidentally being replaced when you modify a file in another application and IMatch is thus rescanning the file.
If you have written back the data in IMatch and then you later replace the file in Lr, wiping out the metadata in the file, nothing can protect you. Just don't use this kind of workflow.

I made a screenshot of the settings I'm talking about. Maybe in German to make it more clear:

Wenn "Bestehende XMP-Daten schützen" nur ungeschriebene Daten schützt, was ist dann der Unterschied zu "Noch nicht geschriebene Daten schützen"? Ich verstehe die Beschreibungen unten folgendermaßen:

"Noch nicht geschriebene Daten schützen ": Macht was Du gesagt hast: Schützt ungeschriebene Daten

"Bestehende XMP-Daten schützen": Wenn in der Datenbank schon ein Eintrag steht, wird er nicht überschrieben, ganz egal was im File steht und egal, ob die Daten schon geschrieben waren oder nicht.

Sorry, wenn ich jetzt noch weiter nachhake, aber ich möchte es gerne verstehen, um meinem Workflow mit möglichst minimalem Aufwand zu ändern

Gruß

Thorsten

[Mario]

IMatch speichert Gesichtsanmerkungen in den XMP Regions. Lr importiert diese wenn es die XMP-Daten importiert.
Die zweite Schutzeinstellung bezieht sich wie in der Hilfe erläutert auf das Mapping von EXIF/IPTC nach XMP. Das hat nichts mit Schlüsselwörtern oder Gesichtsanmerkungen zu tun.

Diese Einstellungen existieren nur für ganz bestimmte Nutzungsszenarien vor allem bei kommerziellen Anwendern und sollten generell nur mit Bedacht geändert werden. Die Standardwerte funktionieren in 99% der typischen Anwendungsfälle bestens. Siehe auch Using Adobe Lightroom® and IMatch together

Das Überschreiben einer von IMatch bereits geschriebenen JPG-Datei mit einer neuen JPG-Datei ohne Metadaten sollte vermieden werden.
Niemand macht sowas wirklich mit Absicht. Kein guter Workflow.
Nutze Versioning in IMatch, dass für diese Fälle gedacht ist. Verlasse dich nicht auf den Metadatenschutz - der greift in diesem Fall nicht und ist dafür auch nicht gedacht.

[voronwe]

Danke für die Infos.

Ich muß mal überlegen, wie ich das mit möglichst wenig Aufwand umstelle