Some questions about xmp

[frlindla]

I was moving photos from one folder to another and was going to delete the empty folder. Then Imatch gave me a warning that the folder still had xmp-files in the folder. In windows explorer I see that there are a lot of xmp-files.

I think this is mostly dng-files and jpgs.

Is this because my buddy relations are not as they should? Because usually a buddy relation should also move the xmp-file?

What should I do now? Move the xmp-files to the right folders manually?

[Mario]

When you move or renames the files in IMatch, it automatically moves/renames the XMP files. Including taking care for collisions or multiple files linked to the same file (e.g. a DNG and JPG, sharing the same XMP and you move only the JPG into another folder => IMatch duplicates the XMP in this case).

I have have produced this problem somehow in IMatch, please provide exact details of what you did and how.
This was never been reported before and the code that manages all that is in place since IMatch 5.

If you move or rename files in other applications, keep in mind that many applications (including Windows Explorer) have no idea of what XMP is and don't take care for XMP sidecar files.

[bekesizl]

This is most probably another side effect of Mylio.
If the folder you are talking about was indexed also by Mylio, it has created the XMP files and as far as I know, Mylio doesn't consider the XMP sidecars as buddy files for JPG and DNG files.

Here is a buddy relation definition for this cases.
Attention: you will have to update file relations for all relevant files (all JPG+DNG+TIFF indexed by Mylio).

Mylio XMP files (buddy) - Workaround for application compatibility
\.(tif|tiff|jpg|jpeg|dng)$
/^_*//
^{name}\.xmp$

After that, copy+move+delete operations in IMatch will take care about these files, too.

[Mario]

Do NOT do that.
IMatch automatically detects and manages XMP files. Adding a buddy rule for XMP files may cause all kind of weird side effects.
DNG and JPEG files MUST, as per Adobe's rules and the XMP standard, always use embedded XMP data. But IMatch will still detect and manage the XMP files, including moving and renaming them with the associated image files.

@frlindla
Please let me know if you also process your files with Mylio.
Since Mylio has many issues related to metadata and file handling, this would save me time. Because I then know that most likely IMatch is not the cause of your troubles.

[frlindla]

Thank you for answers!

I will try to explain:

I was organizing photos inside Imatch, not from Mylio. I discovered that something was wrong when I had moved photos from one folder to another (used Imatch clipboard) and wanted to delete an empty folder. Imatch warned me that deleting this folder (that seemed to be empty) would also delete xmp-files that is not visible inside Imatch. I opened windows explorer and found a lot of xmp-files.

If Imatch automatically moves the xmp-files when the corresponding image files are moved, then I think maybe Mylio be the reason (?) What I did from Mylio was to add titles, captions, some keywords and face tagging. I guess Mylio produced these xmp-files.

Is this the details you need Mario?

[Mario]

I have learned that Mylio does many very strange and non-standard things when it comes to dealing with metadata, e.g. insisting on creating XMP files for image formats which must use embedded XMP data, not copying existing EXIF or GPS data, refusing to see changes done to metadata in other applications. I no longer bother. I have no time for this.

[frlindla]

Sorry to bother you.

I can tell you that I have started using Imatch for adding as much metadata as I can. So I hope you don`t get to frustrated. You know, many of us learn a lot when you explain things. We learn!

So please, understand this.

And I know that you are very busy preparing Imatch 2021:) Thanks for beeing so good to answer.

[jch2103]

If Imatch automatically moves the xmp-files when the corresponding image files are moved, then I think maybe Mylio be the reason (?) What I did from Mylio was to add titles, captions, some keywords and face tagging. I guess Mylio produced these xmp-files.

It sounds like Mylio added the XMP sidecar files for your JPG/TIF images, and that IMatch (properly) didn't move them with the image files during your reorganization. You'll likely want to confirm that the JPG/TIF files do contain the proper metadata; if that's correct, you should be able to delete the 'extra' XMP sidecar files as they just contain duplicate data. I ran into similar situations with redundant XMP files several years ago (same kind of cause: non-compliant software). During a recent cleanup, I found hundreds of 'extra' XMP files I was able to delete without adverse consequences. But you will want to confirm that yours aren't needed any more...

[Mario]

IMatch detects and handles XMP files automatically. Even for DNG or JPEG files. As defined by the XMP standard, an XMP file "belongs" to all files with the same name in the same folder.

So, even if Mylio for some reason uses sidecar XMP files for DNG or JPG (which is a mistake), IMatch will handle that just fine.

[birdbrain]

FWIW, I recently tested and "divorced" Mylio and my person experience:

Mario's comment about it's issues are spot on...there are many fatal issues. It cannot be trusted, even for the basics. And when one is dedicated much time to such a tool, a feeling of trust is very important.

I have nothing but JPGs.  Mylio created and managed (or perhaps I should say mismanaged) XMP sidecars for each one.

I am in the trial period with IMatch and when I test-imported folders of JPGs with Mylio-created XMP sidecars, they loaded better than expected vis-a-vis the metadata that came over.

Just my two cents.

Joe

[Mario]

I am in the trial period with IMatch and when I test-imported folders of JPGs with Mylio-created XMP sidecars, they loaded better than expected vis-a-vis the metadata that came over.

This is because IMatch produces a rich XMP record from the existing EXIF, IPTC, GPS data in your JPEGs and then merges in the bit of XMP Mylio stores in the sidecar file (they only store what they handle in their own application). I recommend you delete the superfluous XMP files after the first write-back in IMatch. They are not used for JPEG files and having two XMP records for the same file causes problems.

PS: I have worked with Mylio only for a short while, mostly do see how it treats metadata.
If you have found other issues which might be of interest, please let me know. I have spent hours already analyzing problems reported by users, and then finding out that they used Mylio and that Mylio was the cause of the problems. Hence I now usually ask "Do you use Mylio" before wasting time 

[sinus]

There are very often problems when the basics are missing.
In my opinion, that is the case with Mylio. It looks very nice, top stylish, but if you want a bit more depth at some point, well, the basics are just missing.

It's like building a house, and the basic structures are wrong or insufficiently created.
Then you can build something great, chic over it. It just looks great.
If you're lucky, nothing happens and everything goes well. If you're unlucky or you want to do something unusual, maybe add something in the basement, then the problems start.
And if in a house the problems are in the basic structure, well, good night. Then even the super great construction and the cool look is usually of no use.

In my opinion, IMatch is the other way around. The basic structure is super solid, meets standards and is well thought out down to the last detail. Every now and then I thought, well, a slightly more modern look would be nice. And that's exactly what Mario has done (my personal impression), IMatch is also becoming cooler and more modern in terms of looks, offers even more and with new updates Mario can just build on a rock-solid framework.

From that point of view, you really can't go wrong with IMatch. Everything is built solidly from the ground up, and whatever new technical possibilities come along, IMatch is ready for them thanks to its basic structure.

Just my two cents.

[Mario]

Thanks.

And, thanks to my open system approach, even if you decide one day to leave IMatch, your metadata will be sound and solid and complete. And more IMatch-specific data like categories or Attributes can be exported in a variety of formats - in case you want to reuse it in other applications.