Online License Check Required?

[Mario]

I'm pondering if I should add an online license check to IMatch.
I'm not a big fan of such things, but recent developments made me rethink...

What would such a license check do

1.  After installation, IMatch would ask you to enter the email address and license key you use to log into the customer customer portal.
The same info you have to enter into the Updater App anyway if you use it to download and install updates.

2.  Every 30 days or so, IMatch would check if your license is still valid.
If you are offline at the time, IMatch will try to do the license check for a week or so. Then it will ask you to connect to the Internet so it can check your license.

The license check would verify that your license is still valid and if the usage is plausible (e.g., not one IMatch license being used around the same time in 3 locations several hundred miles away).
The license check needs the same info as the Updater App: the email address and license key needed to download IMatch.

The reason for this

Over the past months, I've had several cases where users purchased IMatch, downloaded it, and then, a week or two later, forced a full refund via their credit card company.
Without contacting me, asking questions or anything.

I have no problem if a user contacts me and tells me he/she cannot get IMatch to work. Or he/she did not read about the requirement for AVX CPU support. Made the purchase in error. Etc.
But "silent" purchase - download - force a refund schemes seem to become more popular.
It also seems there are many more weekly update checks than licenses sold...

If a user issues a refund, I delete his customer record from the database and the user cannot get updates anymore. And no support, obviously.
But IMatch will work forever, though. I have no way to revoke licenses which have been rendered invalid for some reason.

As I said, I'm not a big fan of such license checks. I need to program this, maintain this, and deal with the users who are off-line for more than 30 days in a row for some reasons etc.
But it might become required. IMatch could combine the license check with an update check - for extra convenience 

Let me know what you think below.

[photophart]

Humans are resourceful thieves. Time and evolution have made us that way. Think clever hairless monkeys, that's us. If we can get a banana without paying for it we will. Because we are the way we are you should do anything and everything in your power to protect your product from the monkeys. If it were possible, the best solution would be tamper-resistant exploding software. Yes, I know, an unpleasant solution, but effective. Since that obviously isn't possible the approach you suggest seems more than reasonable.
Mark

[sinus]

Hmmm, sad, that you have to thing about such things.

I don't understand such users, it seems that such users have no conscience, especially not a bad one, and can still sleep well.
It is a shame, like these grrxlf... hackers and spammers.

I personally would of course not like the things, what you proposes. To be honest, I would even hate it.
I own some programs, the big ones are the CS6-collection, Metashape and of course some software of smaller companies. I do not know, if the check my license, but at least, if the do, but still, I don't notice it.

These things, what you are describing, such users, they are certainly very mean and would also burden and annoy me.
Is there no other possibility?

I don't know, I really don't have any idea about that, but mindstorm-wise:

- once, after a month, I have to re-verify IMatch, maybe get a new password or something and then, maybe after 6 months a second time, and that's it.
Might annoy some of these users because they can't use IMatch any more, I don't know.

- maybe only 1x new verification after half a year, where you could check if it's paid and that would be it. If such a user then built up a DB for free with such a trick, it would no longer work.

- the advantage of a DAM could be, that it is quite a lot of work. If I do so for 6 month and then my work is gone, this would be very bad. In contrary e.g. if I could use some other programs like a game for half a year without costs and then it vanishes, well, this would not harm that much (mostly).
Maybe you could make, that one have to verify IMatch after some time, say, 6 monthes, and if I do not, the program would not more work.

- hmmm, that's all I can think of right now. I think it's ok if I have to prove the purchase at some point, once a year or so, but the way you write it, that would be the case more often ... or I misunderstood.
And to be honest, that would annoy me a bit, but of course I would still remain loyal to IMatch   

I hate such stupid users, spamers, hackers and other bad people, opefully they will have to spend some time in hell or wherever. 

[lbo]

I strongly dislike software depending on external license servers or other resources and I try to avoid it where possible.

I prefer sending you cash instead.

[mastodon]

It is not an external license server system. There will be "no way to revoke licenses which have been rendered invalid for some reason".
If this helps for Mario, I strongly agree. I don't think it has any downside for the users.

[stephock]

I see no problem with this at all.

My only query would be concerning versions. If I am using version x of the software, and for various reasons have not upgraded for a number of years (any number of years), I should hope that the licence remains valid, even though the software is now on version x+.

I raise this, because I know that support for a given version stops after a time...

[PaulS]

I have no problem with your proposal

[Mario]

It is not an external license server system. There will be "no way to revoke licenses which have been rendered invalid for some reason".

No, this will be a license server. If a customer forces a refund and thus voids his license, the license check will know and deactivte IMatch / put it back into Trial mode. Somehow.

I see no problem with this at all.
My only query would be concerning versions. If I am using version x of the software, and for various reasons have not upgraded for a number of years (any number of years), I should hope that the licence remains valid, even though the software is now on version x+.

I discontinue support for legacy products 6 months after the next major release is out.
But your installed IMatch license will keep on working. You just don't get any updates anymore.
The same would be true with the license check. Your license is still valid, because you have paid for it.

[AlanS]

I understand your need for some type of license check.
I've gone traveling for up to 6 weeks, though unfortunately not in the last 2 years.
Hopefully they would be a simple and easy way to reinstate my standing.

[Mario]

I think uses with 6 weeks without any internet connection would count as a edge case.

[jch2103]

I have no problem with your proposal as outlined. Even when traveling (with laptop), I'm usually able to have internet contact at least every week or so. A bother, but I can certainly understand why you're considering it.

[Mario]

I would have no problem to spread license checks to 8 weeks after the initial check. That should cover even extensive travel periods
(Heck, I have users working on boats in remote areas, doing science stuffs). Internet is a luxury there).

My goal is not to annoy users, but to clamp down on freeloaders somewhat.
I don't know about the legalities yet, but I thing I could even disable the license check after 6 months (refund period) entirely.

I don't want to switch to IMatch as a subscription (although this is financially very interesting). Adobe tripled their revenue (!) after switching their main products to subscription. Figure that!

I want to find a balance between minimal annoyance to users (important to me) and reducing piracy, license "sharing", plain theft and similar issues.

Sadly, it seems that times have changed and more people are willing to rip of small independent software vendors like me.
Folks spending a large chunk of their spare time to create a product like IMatch. This does not affect only me, for sure.

Software piracy was always a problem. But since the big shops like Adobe, Microsoft etc. are switching to rock-hard subscription-only software-as-as-service models, with constant license checks, small ISV's like me become more and more of a target.

[loweskid]

I have no problem with your proposal as outlined.

+1

[Menace]

I prefer every now and then a license check than a subscription-model. Most Subscription-Models I canceled and use alternate products, even if it is more expansive.

[BanjoTom]

I, too, am OK with a license check...  But (even though I rarely go for long periods without using IMatch) I'd support the idea of an 8-week license check...  And as Sinus noted, it is indeed sad that you have to think about and implement such things because of some bad folks abusing your software licensing as it stands. 

[Tveloso]

Same here.

A product as powerful as IMatch, probably needs to have a License Check!

[Lincoln]

I have no problem with your suggestions Mario. We need to keep it profitable for you so the end user benefits from your development work.

[HaWo]

The idea of an 8-week license check is OK.

[zematima]

Hi:
No problem with your idea.
But the bad guys shoudn't win...
So if there is any chance (like Sinus said) to check the license 6 monyhs later for instance, the user has already put a lot of work in the database. After the check, the next time the user tried to open the database, a message will pop saying the license is not valid (don't forget to put a big smile on it...)

[lbo]

To make clear what I meant:

Users need to be able to install IMatch on new hardware even if photools license servers don't exist some day.

I thing I could even disable the license check after 6 months (refund period) entirely.

How do you plan to implement this?

By the way - which dependencies on photools servers exist currently?

[Mario]

By the way - which dependencies on photools servers exist currently?

Customer portal for downloading your software.
Update check.

I try to minimize dependencies. That's why I said that I'm not a fan of licensing checks in my initial post above.
On the other hand, there are the bad people who rip me of...

[David_H]

I would have no problem to spread license checks to 8 weeks after the initial check. That should cover even extensive travel periods
(Heck, I have users working on boats in remote areas, doing science stuffs). Internet is a luxury there).

My goal is not to annoy users, but to clamp down on freeloaders somewhat.
I don't know about the legalities yet, but I thing I could even disable the license check after 6 months (refund period) entirely.

I'd think that would be fair - after the refund period has elapsed, a slightly different version is downloaded without the check (or perhaps could be unlocked - like the current Visual Studio licences) - it also caters for the "What happens if Mario gets hit by a bus" scenario as presumably in that instance, the license server wouldn't be available...

[rienvanham]

No problem for me Mario. If you want to use professional software you have to pay for it. period. You may check my license every now and then.

Rien.

[Menace]

To make clear what I meant:

Users need to be able to install IMatch on new hardware even if photools license servers don't exist some day.

Oh, very good point. I support this.

[DigPeter]

Sad - but you must do what you need to do.

[Jingo]

To make clear what I meant:
   Users need to be able to install IMatch on new hardware even if photools license servers don't exist some day.

This indeed... ask anyone who purchased Sagelight perpetual license and then could no longer use their software because the developer shut things down and no longer maintained the license server.  What an uproar that caused!

Since my PCs are connected and on the internet 24/7 - this wouldn't be a bad system... though I can understand how this might cause issues.  And, as others have said, where there are bad folks, they will find a way around this anyway.  Encrypted dongles are the current best option... but not practical for non-top tier corporate software as they are expensive, can be lost and can even still be hacked.

Anyway... good luck with this... it is not an easy choice and comes down to revenue loss vs coding... and customer difficulties that could arise from a security check system.

[lbo]

By the way - which dependencies on photools servers exist currently?

Customer portal for downloading your software.
Update check.

what about the camera database (FOV)? I don't know exactly how it's managed but IIRC, it is downloaded from photools.

[Mario]

Yes, sorry. Different server even.
But the Map panel works without that - it's just an extra convenience.
IMatch only needs to access the database when you bring in images taken with a new camera.
Once it knows the camera FOV, it does not need the database anymore.

And when I'm hit by a bus, you'll probably switch to another DAM anyways 

[BanjoTom]

And when I'm hit by a bus, you'll probably switch to another DAM anyways 

No way! The alternatives either cost far too much or fall too far short of what IMatch provides...  I'll probably ride the IMatch train forever... or until I am hit by a bus! 

[Carlo Didier]

Sad that you even have to think about this ...
But, a monthly check would be more of a nuisance to honest users than for the bad guys.
Personally, I'm often travelling without any internet connection ... but want to use iMatch on the road.
So, how about doing the check only when an internet connection is available? I don't think iMatch would be of great use for someone on a computer which is permanently isolated from the internet.

[Mario]

So, how about doing the check only when an internet connection is available? I don't think iMatch would be of great use for someone on a computer which is permanently isolated from the internet.

If I really would add something like this, I would take care not to annoy users.
Your suggestion would not work, though. Because a bad person could just block IMatch in the Windows firewall. IMatch could never check the license and that would circumvent the license check completely.

I prefer a license grant approach.
IMatch would run for two months after the last license check. If you travel for more than two months without any Internet connection, you would have problems.
But two months without any Internet connection is something like an edge case.
The license check would not need big bandwidth or anything. Just a quick check. Even a mobile connection at 9600 baud would do.

[mastodon]

your license grant model is OK.
But I think the subscription model will overcome. What if you won't able do more big developments, that worth an upgrade? Just like MS Office for many-many years. You don't get the money, but you polish your software and make customer service.
Every software will be a part of service.
As your service is excellent, you don't have to afraid of it.

[Mario]

What if you won't able do more big developments, that worth an upgrade?

This is why companies like Adobe and others switch to a subscription model.
To take the pressure out to invent and improve.

Honestly, how many improvements have we seen over the past couple of years in Photoshop or Lightroom?
All the while Adobe tripled (!) their revenues and used the money they make from their Ps/Lr subscribers to finance the development of their mobile applications?
Ps/Lr subscribers basically paid the product development costs for Adobe's mobile applications - while not getting much in return. I'm a subscriber (I need access to their stuff for compatibility testing) but except from their constant "Move all your important data into our cloud" nagging, I don't see much improvements...

I'm not a big fan of the "You don't own anything anymore. It's all rented" approach.
Yes. You have bought a Android/iPhone. But it won't run/runs safely without the software. But you don't own the software and they can render your smart phone useless at any time.
Same for modern "smart" TVs and other stuff.

I'm not averse to software subscription models. They guarantee a revenue stream and can finance future generations of software.
But there should be an actual value in it, not just a same-same with minor updates here and there.

Regarding support: Most people don't value real support.
If you have recently tried to get some support out of Amazon, Google or Apple, you'll know what "support" looks like these days.
Assuming a moderate 30US$ per hour support fee, every answer I write on this board is probably worth 5 bucks or more. And I have written almost 29,000 replies so far.

[busbahnhof]

If it helps to reduce software piracy, I would support a regular online license check.

[Menace]

This is why companies like Adobe and others switch to a subscription model.
To take the pressure out to invent and improve.

Not necessarily. I see a lot of "subscription model Software" which doesn't invent a lot at all.

I buy every new software, even if I don't really need the new features, if I am convinced about the software/company/creator, as long as I have no disadvantage. Best examples: Capture One or IMatch. There were some versions which I didn't need, but it didn't harm either. Software, which I use mostly daily.
If I can't use a software anymore because an update-check failed, I would prefer an older version and don't update anymore (if it is possible). That's why my last Adobe Design and Web Premium version is CS6 and I move on to Affinity, Quark, C1, ...!

That's why I don't judge owners when they bring new versions with fewer improvements for new paid versions. At last, it is a benefit for me in the longtime.

[Menace]

BTW: If you (not you, Mario, the customers) look at DAM-Software on Google, you find a lot of companies, they even won't tell you the pricing. You have to write them in "private" to get a price list.
For i.e. Daminion.

What makes me really angry is, that there are no introducing of DAM-Software like IMatch from webpages/journals like heise, chip (I asked 5 times for introducing IMatch) and ct (a review from ct brought me to IMatch years ago).

I don't know if Mario like links, so you can google by yourself: "best dam software". For example: focus.de didn't even mention IMatch.

I don't know, how much works it create: Is there a possibility to make a free version for just 500 files to get new customers hooked?

BTW: There is a new nice test: https://fixthephoto.com/best-digital-asset-management-software-for-photographers.html (but it could be even better). ;-)

[Mario]

a lot of companies, they even won't tell you the pricing. You have to write them in "private" to get a price list.

If they don't mention the price, it's expensive. Usually on-time fee for the installation plus monthly subscription per user. Canto, Widen, AssetBank, Bynder etc.
Each can easily cost 10K to 50K US$ or more.

heise.de has a listing for IMatch and when I ship a new release, André Kramer usually writes a piece about IMatch. He does most of the the photo/-imaging related articles for the c't and Heise group. Very nice.

To get placement in other publications is very hard.
You basically fight against a daily flood of crisp-written marketing drivel churned out by specialized marketing companies and writers hired by the vendors.

What you get from Google for terms like "best DAM software" is based on how good the SEO of the web sites is and on the keyword bidding process in the background.

When you follow some of the "What is best DAM..." you find the usual suspects like Widen, Canto, Extensis, Bynder, MediaValet etc. All could-based and high-priced software, aimed mostly at brand departments, marketing and the like. Nothing for photographers. It's just so that the keyword bidding and marketing budgets of these companies have taken over all the DAM-related keywords and that's it. This is what you now get from your search engine.

When I search for "What is the best DAM software for photographers" I get https://fixthephoto.com/best-digital-asset-management-software-for-photographers.html as the first hit.
It even mentions IMatch. And after a few seconds I get a 35% rebate pop over advertisement for the Adobe Creative Cloud. That's the Adobe 200 million US$ annual marketing budget for you 

Regarding Daminion: They focus on corporate users now, and have corporate pricing.

Capterra has a good overview: https://www.capterra.com/digital-asset-management-software/ and 41 (!) very nice reviews for IMatch: https://www.capterra.com/p/126559/IMatch/reviews/ (thanks to all who took the time to write a review).

A new player seems to be G2 (looks similar to Capterra): https://www.g2.com/
They even have a rudimentary entry for IMatch https://www.g2.com/products/imatch/reviews which was probably created by a harvester.

No reviews yet.

I shall look into this and see if I can create an account and add a bot more info about IMatch.

[Menace]

I don't know, Mario, if you have a lot of profi-Customers (which orders Team). Would it be helpful, to make the "Team-IMatch" as a subscription-Model?

[Mario]

I don't like subscription models.
To much responsibility on my end. For the same reason I don't really like license checks (see my first post above).

IMatch is about independence. You buy it, you download it, you use it.
When Mario is hit by a bus or no longer cares for the product, you still have IMatch and it will continue to work until a future Windows update or new file format breaks it.

I think the vast majority of IMatch users thinks the same.
All IMatch Anywhere installations check the license server - you cannot install it when you have no license or if you re-install it too often on different machines.
But once installed, it will continue to work. Trade-off between protecting my IP and comfort for the user.

[Stefanjan]

Hi Mario, I would definitely support you protecting your income from freeloaders and doing whatever is necessary to do that.

It would be good if this is not too intrusive and also some safeguard if the server which checks the licenses went down.

[ColinIM]

Yes, I would be OK with periodic license checks, and I agree that it's a sad reflection on our human nature that you need to consider introducing them!


On the question of monthly license checks or (for example) 8-week license checks ...


Over the years I have sometimes needed to take extended breaks from photography, and hence I might sometimes not run IMatch for more than 8 weeks, so I wonder if you you could include some sort of 'Oh! Welcome Back ...' scheme?


Or perhaps have a progressive 'known good reputation' scheme where the periodic license checks could still occur (whenever the User runs IMatch with an internet connection) but an occasional extended absence could be 'forgiven' or 'allowed', if the User had previously accumulated 'n' satisfactory license checks?


This is indeed a tough problem for you Mario, but I feel it's (nowadays) totally understandable for you to protect your interests.

[Carlo Didier]

The license check would not need big bandwidth or anything. Just a quick check. Even a mobile connection at 9600 baud would do.

True, but how to connect through a slow (and maybe expensive) connection (ex. mobile phone) and let only iMatch make it's check without Windows any everything else also accessing tons of stuff and downloading updates and whatnot ...
But you are right, two months would be ok. I think it's the same with Adobe licenses.

[mstief]

First: I dont have a problem with a license check. (I hve a valid license and I will pay the update fee for the new version
A lot of sw will do that, but I only knew this on software as a service...
For example: Microsoft Office 365. After 3 month without internet connection, it starts with the login dialog...

But I don't know if it's not a problem for onetime paid sw. I think you should check if it's legaly allowed to revoke a license. The user have bought a sw and you can disable it. This is a litte bit like SaaS.

[Mario]

But I don't know if it's not a problem for onetime paid sw. I think you should check if it's legaly allowed to revoke a license.

Please read my initial post again.
The more and more frequent problem is that people purchase a license, download IMatch, and then force a refund via their credit card company.
This gives them IMatch, their money back and I have to cover a) the cost for the processing and b) have no way to revoke the now invalid license.
This is the problem I need to solve. Why would I revoke a paid for license? IMatch licenses are perpetual.

[GOC53]

License check is OK by me. But it is sad that you need to do theis.

[javiavid]

I'm fine with the check.

[mopperle]

I'm also fine with such kind of licenses check every few weeks. For those traveling for weeks without any internet connection, a dongle could be a solution, although personally I hate them. Was for me the reason to switch from Wings Platinum to m.objects.

[Mario]

Ugh, no dongle 
If I'll so something in this area, it must be minimally invasive, privacy-respecting and something normal users with valid licenses won't ever notice. And what also works when all photools.com servers are shut-down. Which makes this really tricky.

[thrinn]

Yes, periodic license checks would be acceptable for me, even if I am not really happy about it. Clamping down on software pirates using IMatch for free is in the interest of all paying users.

However, disabling the license should not take place until several license checks failed. It is always possible that a a license server is not reachable on a given day, or that the internet connection is broken. (I remember that this forum had to be moved suddenly to a new provider after the old one blocked it).

I don't know about the legalities yet, but I thing I could even disable the license check after 6 months (refund period) entirely.

This would be a good thing and a reasonable compromise.

Depending on how often the check takes place, I would prefer not to be informed if the check succeeded. Only if it failed. Or, as already mentioned here, the "license successfully checked" message could be included in the "your IMatch version is up to date" popup.

[Mario]

Of course IMatch would only do something when your license is not valid.