Music (MP3) Database with Musicians

[Menace]

Hi,

I have a long time wish: the possibility for a database with the musicians. For example; I often buy and listen music of musician their way to play the music I like. My favorite drummer is so Dennis Chambers. He is playing on a lot of different CDs with different Artists. As long as he playing the complete record, I can live with folder (all CDs with Dennis Chambers on drums are in one folder).

But what can I do, when he just play one or two songs in a record?

Currently I start a database with IMatch an try to tag my Music also with musician (not just Dennis Chambers). I use it together with TagScanner 5.1, a software that looks for example in Amazon, MusicBrainz or Discogs.

My question:

• Is there another way to find fast and correct the musician, which perform a song?
• How should I save the musician in the mp3-File?
• Can I save this in the mp3-File with IMatch 5?

Thank you in advance for any idea. 

[Mario]

The MP3 format uses ID3 metadata to save information like this right in the file. Just maintain proper ID3 data in your files and you are all set.

IMatch can read and display ID3 tags (a wide variety or format variations). You can also use this data, like all other metadata, in data-driven categories, for sorting files, searching files etc. Since ExifTool currently does not support writing ID3 tags, IMatch 5 cannot write ID3 tags. You need to use one of the specialized software applications for that purpose. If you download MP3 files from one of the big portals, the ID3 data usually is well maintained.

Start by creating a hierarchical Artist > Album > Song data-driven category with three levels. If you also want to quickly look up MP3 by other ID3 fields, create a data-driven category for these as well. This allows you to quickly slice and dive even collections with tens of thousands of ID3 files.

IMatch can also use ID3 metadata for sorting, you can search for it, use the corresponding variables for display purposes, in scripts, HTML Panels and App.s

[Menace]

Thank you Mario. Unfortunately this information about the musicians is not stored in the ID3-Fields (at least I never saw one of them like: Bass: Victor Wooten; Drums: Dennis Chambers; Guitar: Scott Henderson).

The normal ID3-Data I already use by foobar2000 or music-bee.

Will be there a chance, that IMatch can do this one day? For example via Script or that exiftool can even write mp3-files? I would love this feature.

[Mario]

Unfortunately this information about the musicians is not stored in the ID3-Fields (at least I never saw one of them like: Bass: Victor Wooten; Drums: Dennis Chambers; Guitar: Scott Henderson).

Maybe I don't understand the problem...
Even if ExifTool would support MP3 write-back it could do not better than all the other already available MP3 tools out there. Why don't you use one of these applications to fix/update/add all the info you want to the ID3 records in your files? This information would then also immediately be available in IMatch and all your other music software as well.

The different ID3 versions around offer more or less fields which could hold this type of information. A look at

http://id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames

shows that there is a tag named

4.2.2 TMCL Musician credits list

which sounds like the proper field to store the kind of data you want to record. You now only need to find a MP3 software which allows you to add/edit this field.

[Menace]

After reading a hole day again, here what I found out: There are an ID3-Tag-Field for musicians but it's called: "MUSICIANCREDITS".

Musicbrain Picard stored it like: "MUSICIANCREDITS": "bass:Darryl Jenifer;drums:Earl Hudson;guitar:Dr. Know;lead vocals vocal:H.R.;"

I saw this information in metadata, but I doesn't found it in categories ID3-Tag. Is there a possibility to create a category for this "Musicancredits"?

[Menace]

Even if ExifTool would support MP3 write-back it could do not better than all the other already available MP3 tools out there. Why don't you use one of these applications to fix/update/add all the info you want to the ID3 records in your files? This information would then also immediately be available in IMatch and all your other music software as well.

Because IMatch could do this maybe much more faster and smarter. With the other software I have to do a lot by hand.

My idea is:

I put hierarchical keywords like:

People|Performer|Drums|Dennis Chambers
or just
|drums|Dennis Chambers|

After selecting a track or multiple tracks I just click on "Dennis Chambers" by favorites --> IMatch write it in MUSICIANCREDITS (behind the already existing entries).

With this feature I can add this special tags in less time and smoother than all other mp3-software I tested yet (foobar2000, MusicBrainz Picard, MusicBee, MP3tag, TagScanner and some exotic software).

Of course MusicBrainz and TagScanner can add this fields automatically, but just if there are information on the online database, which often are not.

[habanr]

Use MediaMonkey instead see http://www.mediamonkey.com/. This is perfect tool for music files...

[claudermilk]

I also use MediaMonkey. I think of MediaMonkey as the IMatch of music files--which is a high bar indeed.

[Menace]

Hello habanr and claudermilk,

I thank you for your help. I'll tried Mediamonkey earlier, but have the problem to find the performer index, which was written by "MusicBrainz Picard".

I'll will show a sreenshot, how I work with IMatch later this day.

[Mario]

IMatch 5 ships with a default data-driven category which groups MP3 files by Artist and Album:



You can create a similar category, but add additional levels, e.g. for the ID3 artist, composer or musician credits tag (if you have filled in this information). This makes it quite comfortable to browse even very large MP3 collections in IMatch. And you can play the files right in IMatch from the Quick View Panel or by using the Media App in the App Panel.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Menace]

Hi Mario, that's not all, what IMatch can do with MP3-Files. It is currently my favorite Media-Software.

Some reasons I wrote in the image.

More reasons:

• It is fast and smooth.
• After understanding IMatch, it is easy to work with

Now I'll looking to get also musician credits tag (didn't found it yet).

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

Now I'll looking to get also musician credits tag (didn't found it yet).

That tag is only supported for MP3 files with ID3 records version 2.4 and later. Rather exotic.

ID3::v2_4\TMCL\MusicianCredits

ExifTool supports this tag and when you add an image to your IMatch database which contains this tag it will show in the Metadata Panel when you switch to the Browser layout. You can of course add this tag to a custom Metadata Panel layout too.

Now you only need a MP3 software which allows you to fill this data in.

[Menace]

Hi Mario,

thanks a lot for the answer. 

Now you only need a MP3 software which allows you to fill this data in.

As long as Exiftool doesn't support write the ID3-Tag, I will use MusicBrain Picard. Do you know, if there is a plan for Exiftool also to write in MP3-Tags?

[Mario]

Post a question on the ExifTool User Forum. Maybe other users chime in and support your request. But ID3 tag data is a worse mess than Exif maker notes and there are so many variations around that adding write support may be a major effort...

[Photon]

I am using three DAM tools in parallel (Imatch, Winamp and JPhototagger) in order to manage my photos, music and images/videos. This because for daily work I need all three assets accessible at the same time with different user interfaces. And even listening to music in parallel to Imatch usage has to be possible of course. I have researched a lot for my 50,000 mp3 collection about music DAM and know a couple of them. But finally I use just the free edit tool www.mp3tag.de and low cost WinampPro together. Mp3tag is German like IMatch and has a similar level of convenience. It is so good, that I even donated something.

Finally I think, that is has risks and drawbacks if you want to manage all audio, music, office and video assets with one tool. One key requirement is the complete file management and full drag&drop support of DAM software. With drag&drop for example even popular tools like LightRoom have drastical limitations, which does make LR unusable as a DAM.

I fully agree with Mario, that ID3 tags are a mess. You need a lot of cleanup and editing and even filename to tag or tag to filename conversions. MP3tag is very powerful and flexible with this. Honestly I hope, that IMatch author will not spend too much effort in music or video management. This would be a neverending story and block ressources for other important photo management features.

Regards, Martin

[Menace]

Hi Martin,

I see it in the similar way, you do. I mostly uses more software (for example: Capture One = Raw-Converting; Photoshop = jpg changes; IMatch DAM-Software).

But: I work now with IMatch 5 for six month and love this tool. For me it is the swiss knife for handling all my files, especially for my work with QuarkXpress and all associated files. My work database has currently 13.678 folders, 117.809 files (all kind of office files) and 1.470 categories.

After working with that, I am really convinced. 

I will listen my music with foobar2000, but to create a music-database, I guess IMatch would be better than a lot of so called "musicsoftware" in many cases (mostly with the IMatch typical category-system (not keywords)). When I am trying Mediaplayer, Winamp lost against foobar2000 years ago. I guess I should install winamp again for testing. 

MP3tag is very powerful and flexible with this. Honestly I hope, that IMatch author will not spend too much effort in music or video management. This would be a neverending story and block ressources for other important photo management features.

For my feature requests I always mentioned, that Mario shouldn't do things as long he is not bored and I am sure that when you ask for an important photo management feature he will implement it first. But maybe when Phil change exiftool to write ID3-Tags, the change of IMatch 5 would be little and can be done in less time?

[Menace]

Phil answered fast: "So unfortunately adding ID3 write support isn't something that will happen in the foreseeable  future." http://u88.n24.queensu.ca/exiftool/forum/index.php/topic,5112.0.html

So MP3Tag and MusicBrainz Picard have to do it together with IMatch.

[Erik]

I manage a large collection of music files in addition to my images using MediaMonkey with some plugins.  I also desire to keep performer details as well as the official artists because I listen to a lot of jazz music, and many of the performers will play for many bands throughout a career.

Now, ID3 is full of complications and inconsistencies about as much as we find with XMP in image files.  What I have found, is that the best tool for writing and editing your sound file's metadata is MP3Tag.  It supports a lot including custom fields or more obscure fields.  Other things I have found is that many programs will store ID3v1 and ID3v2(.3 or .4) tags in the same file.  Other software will not handle both of these well and will sometimes look at only one or the other, thus you could end up with tags filled but not easily found.  MP3tag will let you work with one or the other only, if you choose.

For my own use, I stick with ID3v2.3 because it is much more stable and have utilized a comment field to create a somewhat custom performer tag.  I have it set up as somewhat like what we may do for multiple keywords in IMatch in that I create a somewhat flattened hierarchy of   

Instrument1|Artist;Instrument2|Artist2;etc.

Now I don't use IMatch for audio files, but if you could choose a field that IM can access, you could utilize the dynamic categories to fit something like the above.  I use a plug-in for MediaMonkey that essentially serves as a dynamic category builder so that on browsing in it, I can see a tree like the following:

Guitar
------Jimmy Page
------Jimmy Hendrix
Drums
------Ringo Star
------Keith Moon
Vocals
------
------
Trumpet
------

It works fairly well... But, as you are finding, the databases out there are very inconsistent or incomplete.  This is a work that is still in progress for me as it is one thing to get the generic artist but another to find all the nuances of when or where an artist performed, especially if they don't perform on each and every track on an album or they guest here and there on other artists albums.

[Menace]

Hi Erik,

first of all, thank you for sharing your workflow with your music.

you use ID3v2.3; but this version doesn't support Musiciancredits, or?

This is a work that is still in progress for me as it is one thing to get the generic artist but another to find all the nuances of when or where an artist performed, especially if they don't perform on each and every track on an album or they guest here and there on other artists albums.

This I can solve with IMatch very easily (but this information isn't stored in the files).

My currently workflow is:

a) Tagging automatic by MusicBrainz Picard (--> this already write in few CDs the right artists (Musiciancredits).
b) Tagging automatic by Tagscanner --> Open info in discogs --> they have often very exact information even which track is played from which artist. This information but is just on the website.
c) Tagging this information from discogs in IMatch via categories
d) change the color of my folder in IMatch (lime-green  = artist just stored in IMatch, darkgreen = artist also stored in ID3-Tag via MP3tag).

But I am just in the beginning. I don't know when I have time and are in the right mood for this.

I have sometime problem to work with MediaMonkey. Sometime I fear I spoil my musicfolders.

[Erik]

Hi Erik,

first of all, thank you for sharing your workflow with your music.

you use ID3v2.3; but this version doesn't support Musiciancredits, or?

This is a work that is still in progress for me as it is one thing to get the generic artist but another to find all the nuances of when or where an artist performed, especially if they don't perform on each and every track on an album or they guest here and there on other artists albums.

This I can solve with IMatch very easily (but this information isn't stored in the files).

My currently workflow is:

a) Tagging automatic by MusicBrainz Picard (--> this already write in few CDs the right artists (Musiciancredits).
b) Tagging automatic by Tagscanner --> Open info in discogs --> they have often very exact information even which track is played from which artist. This information but is just on the website.
c) Tagging this information from discogs in IMatch via categories
d) change the color of my folder in IMatch (lime-green  = artist just stored in IMatch, darkgreen = artist also stored in ID3-Tag via MP3tag).

But I am just in the beginning. I don't know when I have time and are in the right mood for this.

I have sometime problem to work with MediaMonkey. Sometime I fear I spoil my musicfolders.

I've had problems with ID3v2.4 tags in general.  Mediamonkey and other software have corrupted the tags if I edit them in place.  Rather, I use 2.3 and use one of the generic comment tags that might be available (instead of the specific tag you are trying to use).  I also use MP3Tag for cleaning up all my tags, and I do utilize a large chunk of FLAC files.  MP3Tag also allows you to create custom tags, which get classified as TXXX tags (under the official ID3 specs) but can be named differently in long-form.  Mediamonkey uses these for some of its proprietary tags, and I think Picard creates a few of these fields as well. 

The field you are trying to use is rather obscure, so chances are that any software that supports that field will probably support comment fields, which tend to be more common.  I've had to use all sorts of fields like this to support Classical music in a logical manner since ID3 really isn't geared towards Classical at all. 

I think your workflow is good.  It isn't much different than what I've done, but I found that there were enough inconsistencies in Picard that I've had to rely on your last 2 steps almost exclusively and use discogs based stuff for new music.  My bigger issue gets with the variation that can occur in an musicians name in just having names sometimes first last or last, first or various initials, and so on.  We face the same thing with images too in keeping our keywords consistent, where a thesaurus comes in handy.  That may make IMatch a valuable tool in music management, too.  I just never thought about it or tried it as you are.  Seems like a good idea and perhaps a good utilization of the thesaurus.