[BBD] Problem with hierachical keywords

[Lord_Helmchen]

After being long time away from integrating IMatch with Excire, I found a strange ingestion of keywords from Excire in IMatch. In JPEGs, I see flat and hierarchical keywords. In raw file (ORF) I only see flat keywords. In thumbnail view for JPEGs both types of keywords are shown, for raw only flat. In the XMP records in both files both keywords are embedded.

To avoid misconfiguration of my regular DB, I created a new DB. But the problem is persistent.

I'll send you via mail a link original files.
 
 
 

[Mario]

I seem to recall that that Excire prefers their own proprietary XMP data over standard XMP keyword storage and that they don't stick to the industry standards. Not sure.

Have a look at your files in the The ExifTool Command Processor to see which keywords are contained in the standardized XMP keyword tags: XMP::dc::Subject and XMP::lr::hierarchicalSubject. If you work with RAW, use the ECP preset which looks at the XMP sidecar file, too.
Just search for subject after running the List Metadata preset.

You can also test your files with the The Metadata Analyst.

Both IMatch and the The Metadata Analyst know about the standard keyword tags: legacy IPTC keywords, XMP flat keywords and XMP hierarchical keywords. If your keywords are not stored in at least one of the standard keyword tags, IMatch will not see them. IMatch does not look for or support proprietary keyword storage schemes.

If ExifTool does not find the keywords your Excire product has created, chances are that your keywords are not stored in the standard keyword tags and you have to find a way to move them to the standardized keyword tags.

[Lord_Helmchen]

Thanks for super quick response!

maybe I have misunderstood you. But is Exicre using different  tags for JPEG than for Raw files? Because for JPEGs both are visible in IMatch, but not for Raw. From what I saw, it looked, like the tags are the same in both formats.

[Mario]

Please follow my advice and check your files in the ECP and MDA.
If your keywords are not showing for RAW files in IMatch, where did Exire put them?

I don't have sample files. I don't have MDA or ECP outputs to check. How can I know?
But if ExifTool cannot find your keywords, I would guess that they are not in one of the standard keyword metadata tags...

If you find them in a standard keyword metadata tag but ExifTool/IMatch do not find them, let me know.
When I recall correctly, Excire stores keywords in a proprietary namespace, not in a standard tag.

Attach a RAW file to your reply so we can check. Or upload into your cloud storage and post a link.

[Lord_Helmchen]

Attach a RAW file to your reply so we can check. Or upload into your cloud storage and post a link.

As mentioned in initial post, I'd send a mail to your support mailbox with a link to the files (including Raw and JPEG).

[Mario]

The JPEG file contains standard XMP flat and hierarchical keywords:

Code Select Expand

[XMP-dc] Subject              : Tier, Ungesättigt, Säugetier, Pflanzenfresser, Elefant
[XMP-lr] Hierarchical Subject : excire|content|animal, excire|photography|dull, excire|content|animal|mammal, excire|content|animal|herbivore, excire|content|animal|mammal|elephant
The RAW (ORF) contains only flat keywords in the XMP file:

Code Select Expand

[XMP-dc] Subject : Tier, Ungesättigt, Säugetier, Pflanzenfresser, Elefant
and what looks like some sort of hierarchical keywords in a proprietary Excire namespace:

Code Select Expand

[XMP-excire] Hierarchical Subject : excire|content|animal, excire|photography|dull, excire|content|animal|mammal, excire|content|animal|herbivore, excire|content|animal|mammal|elephant
IMatch does not expect or support keywords outside the standardized XMP keyword (subject) tags.
You could have find that out yourself quickly following my advice and using the ECP to check for hierarchical keywords.

Tell the software vendor to include the standard XMP::lr:hierarchicalSubject also in the XMP file. IMatch and other software will detect and use it automatically. Or you somehow copy them from the proprietary metadata to the standard metadata somehow (Metadata Template, Metadata Mechanic, ...).

[Lord_Helmchen]

Ok, thank you! I contacted Excire with my request to use the same LR namespace.

Thanks for you help

Am I correct to assume, it is possible to reverse propagate the hierarchical keywords from a version to master?

[Mario]

Am I correct to assume, it is possible to reverse propagate the hierarchical keywords from a version to master?

Sure.

[thrinn]

Am I correct to assume, it is possible to reverse propagate the hierarchical keywords from a version to master?

It completely depends on your File Relation rules what IMatch considers to be a "Master" or a "Version". So, you might have to create a (temporary) rule that makes your version a master and the master a version. Be careful to activate / deactivate the correct rules for propagation!

Alternatively, maybe you can use a Metadata Template to copy the Excire "keywords" into the correct field. At least if these special Excire namespace is imported into your database.