Maps panel, set GPS via predefined Location

[CVKen3]

I'm new to the maps panel, and it generally works fine. I've been using a variety of methods to set GPS data: drag files into the map, use a target marker, and use a Location I've created. This allows me to set and change location data.

One odd thing: There are cases where the "dest" GPS data gets filled in without it being specified. As near as I can tell, this is:

1. If I set the position using a map panel "Location" (yellow circle, right click --> Apply coords.)
2. If I reverse geocode the image.

Once the "dest" GPS data is set, it becomes difficult to change the position of the file. That is, if you drag the file to a new position or set via a target pin, it only changes the base position (and not the "dest" GPS coords). So, I end up with 2 markers and a red line between them. (FWIW, changing via a pre-defined Location doesn't have this issue because it resets the "dest" GPS data to the location, too.)

Also, by setting both the base and dest location, each selected file on the map displays the number "2" in a blue dot at that Location. So, if you select 3 files at one location, the blue dot will display "6". Again, this is because the base and dest GPS positions are at the same spot, so the map thinks there are two things there.

It would be nice if the Locations and the Reverse Geocode didn't set the dest GPS data, and this only happened when you clicked the specialized button in the pop-up.

Also, it would be nice if there were buttons to clear the GPS data totally or to just clear the dest GPS data. Going into the metadata is a bit odd because (to a beginner) it's not exactly clear which fields need to be cleared (although, I'm getting the hang of that.)

[Mario]

Once the "dest" GPS data is set, it becomes difficult to change the position of the file. That is, if you drag the file to a new position or set via a target pin, it only changes the base position (and not the "dest" GPS coords). So, I end up with 2 markers and a red line between them. (FWIW, changing via a pre-defined Location doesn't have this issue because it resets the "dest" GPS data to the location, too.)

By definition, cameras set the "location created". Users set the "location shown".
The camera cannot know what you looked at (the actual motive), it can only record the location of the camera. You may make a photograph from a building 200 meters away, or of a mountain 2 Kilometers away.

The relation between location shown and location created in XMP IPTC and EXIF GPS are quite complex. The XMP standard defines when to set what, and where to import GPS coordinates from EXIF when there a) is no destination coordinate or when there is on. Not to speak of the fact that EXIF has two sets of lat/lon but only one Altitude. For whatever reason.

I've wend to several iterations over the years to keep track with changes in GPS/XMP, user expectation and standard conformity across multiple metadata formats and platforms.

Dragging the file on the map pane changes the location created, the target marker remains unmodified by that. You can also drag the target marker to a new destination location without changing the location created (camera standpoint).

If you want to clear GPS data, use the "IPTC Location" Metadata Panel and delete all Created and/or Shown locations and write back.

[axel.hennig]

I'm also observing some weired things here.

Example to reproduce: 
1. Import the jpg-file attached in the zip-file (extract the jpg out of the zip -> just to ensure that the community-software does not destroy the metadata)
2. Put the target maker somewhere on the map and click on "Apply the target maker coordinates..."
3. Look into "6 IPTC Location" panel within the Metadata-panel -> Location Created gets filled with Lat/Lon -> Correct
4. Write-back
5. Reverse-geocode that image (Strg+M,G)
6. Look again into "6 IPTC Location": Altitude gets written to both (Location Created and Location Shown), City, Country Code, Country Name and so on only gets written to Location Shown -> This does not seem to be correct
7. Write-back
8. Look into the Map-panel: It shows both (same Lat/Lon), Target Marker and Direction Marker -> I don't want to have the Direction Marker and I haven't done (actively) anything in my steps to set the Direction Marker

[Mario]

There is only one Altitude in EXIF, which makes this difficult.
When location coordinates exist, these are used as the address of the of the destination marker.
When you reverse geocode, how do you to it? Are both a created and shown coordinate pair offered or both?
Coordinates and address data added by "users" should go into location shown by default.

I will download the sample image and have a look at this when there is a free time slot. Weekend or next week, probably.

[axel.hennig]

Thanks for looking into this.

Forgot to mention: IMatch 2023.3.6

To your questions:
Q: When you reverse geocode, how do you do it?
A: By pressing Strg+M,G

Q: Are both a created and shown coordinate pair offered or both? [EDIT: I guess you mean "...or only one"]
A: Only one of them is offered (I guess the created coordinates, because I've applied only the Target Marker; see screenshot)


Q:

[CVKen3]

Note: After writing this, I feel like I sound a bit stressed or angry. Note that I'm not! I'm just trying to go through my reasoning in a detailed way. You've created a great product that handles almost everything I need with flying colors. Using maps just seems a bit off and I'm trying to explain exactly why I think that.

Also, I apologize for using location to mean two things: GPS Position and a pre-defined LOCATION that I've created in my maps. I've tried to use the upper case LOCATION notation when I'm talking about a pre-defined place.

In my case, I'm not using the camera. I've got a bunch of old scanned pictures with no GPS data and I'm adding it manually. Sure, conceptually the GPS location is the location where the picture was TAKEN, but I really want it to be the location of the thing I'm taking the picture of.

My issue is that there are different behaviors depending on how you do things. If you drag a picture to the map or set a target pin on the map and set that location into a picture, the software only sets the "plain" gps location. However, if you create a LOCATION on the map (yellow circle) and set the location from that, or if you "reverse geocode" an existing location, then the software fills in BOTH the gps and the dest gps data.

If I have an image with both gps and dest gps data and I drag it to a new location on the map (or use a target pin), then the software ONLY moves the "plain" gps data. However, if I move the image to a created LOCATION (yellow circle) on the map, then the software moves BOTH the gps and the dest gps data.

In reality, if I move a photo to a new position on the map, either by dragging the photo to the map, using a target pin, or using a pre-defined LOCATION, I really want the system to move all the gps data. If it just has gps, then move that. If it has both the gps and dest gps, then move both.

In my usage, I only want the two locations (gps and dest gps) to be different if I specifically "unlock" them.

You already have a feature in the maps where I can right-click on an image marker and add an image direction. I feel like I should have to specifically use this to split the gps and gps dest positions. The current method of "sometimes it does it automatically" is a bit odd.

I sort of feel that this feature is similar to aspect ratio in a drawing program. When you resize, you generally want the aspect ratio locked and it should only unlock if you specifically ask for that to happen. Here, it seems to change behavior depending on how I do something, or what action I took in the past.

Note also: When I reverse geocode a position, it doesn't know where I'm looking. Why does that set the "looked at" info? Similarly, when i create a pre-defined LOCATION (yellow circle) in the maps, I don't provide any data on where I'm looking. Why does that set the "looked at" info?

[Mario]

I'm working on this.

Def:
GPS coordinates (lat/lon/alt)
Location: things like country, city, location, sub-location (available in different standards like IPTC, IPTCExt, XMP photoshop etc).

The general idea is that when a user places a pin on a map, this means the "location shown", not the camera standpoint.
This is also in accordance with recommendations by the IPTC and XMP.

When the user also sets a destination coordinate, the former location shown must become the created coordinate and the address info needs to be swapped (if any).
Add to this the support for location data (with or without GPS coordinates) in 
- EXIF (created/shown coordinates and alt, but only alt for created, not for shown)
- XMP::photoshop (country, state, city tags only)
- legacy IPTC (country, city, state, location)
- XMP:IPTCExt (locationShown and locationCreated structured tags with coordinates and location)
- IPTCCore: Location tag.

Features in IMatch that can modify GPS coordinates and location data: Metadata Panel, Map Panel, Map Panel Locations, Metadata Templates.

All this has evolved over time and IMatch has (had to) changed course several times over the years.
The most recent addition (IMatch 2023) was the support for structured tags, including IPTCExt::LocationShown and IPTCExt::LocationCreated.

Even more recently I've improved the mapping between IPTC location data, IPTCCore location data, XMP::photoshop location data and IPTCExt location data. ExifTool does not automatically all tags to sync them and the structured tags made everything a lot more complex.

Reverse geocoding must work for either case. Where the user has only created GPS coordinates or shown/dest GPS coordinates or both. Tag values must be swapped on-the-fly when a file that had only one set of coordinates (which, depending on the producing app are either created or dest coordinates) and then, by adding a destination marker on the map panel, the former shown coordinates become created.

The current situation that IMatch sometimes does fill created location data and GPS coordinates for shown when there is only one set of GPS coordinates is a glitch that has been reported and I'm already working on this.
The Map Panel (all supported providers) will be changed to set shown coordinates instead of created, unless there are also destination/shown coordinates for the file. When the user adds a destination marker, the shown coordinates will have to be moved to created and the destination marker becomes the new shown.

There are some other complexities that would take too long to explain.
And when I look at the metadata produced by well-known imaging applications, IMatch is way ahead. And will be even more betterer once I finished this consistency / migration step. Unfortunately, even my days have only 48 hours. I do what I can.