Keywords not propagating

[rolandgifford]

I'm changing a number of my keywords and the changes aren't being propagated through the version set.

I have matching version and buddy rules and a filter which hides buddy files.

I'm moving my WHERE keywords up a level, taking out the location value.

In the categories view I'm selecting the WHERE|a|b|c keyword, selecting all files and dragging them to WHERE|a|b

As an example, originally the keyword count shows 20 files with 15 displayed. The other 5 being versions set/buddy files. After the drag the count shows 5 and no images are shown.

Metadata write back doesn't propagate this change to the 5 files.

I expect that I have broken one of the propagation settings which must have been correct at some point as I have keywords on the version children.

Can someone please point me at a help topic, post, whatever so that I can look at what I have broken and then fix it. This particular instance is easy to work round as I can just turn the display filter off but that is a solution to this specific example, I need to trust that master keyword changes are propagated.

[Mario]

When you point the mouse cursor at the pen for the master, does it list hierarchical keywords as having go be written?
Are the keywords in the master updated correctly?
How do the keywords in the versions change, if at all?
Did you check your propagation rules? Which tags / groups do you propagate? Rule activated?
When you add and remove a keyword from the master and write back, are the versions updated?

Changing keywords in bulk using the Category View and mixing that with propagation is complex. It's actually eye-watering complex what decisions or actions users perform and mix with various metadata settings, relation setups, propagation settings etc. And then when something breaks, it's really hard (and very time consuming) to analyze this.
Very hard to tell what's happening without detailed information about the before and after, sample images with sampe data you use, propagation logs from the IMatch log file, etc.

[rolandgifford]

It gets worse! I have found some which work as I would expect and some which don't. I expect that the 'history' of updates to these images will be part (or all) of the problem.

Thanks for your reply which has highlighted that what is being attempted is in the log file. I'll look at that trying one file at a time to see if I can find a pattern. I'm not expecting anyone else to find the problem, just asking for hints and tips which may not have occurred to me.

I have certainly found raw files where metadata analyst tells me that there is a sidecar file and the xmp entries embedded don't match the sidecar. I have found child jpg files which are 'greyed out' from a keywords and metadata point of view but look OK if I do a rescan.

Mess as you correctly say and almost impossible for me to provide samples without knowing how to find the problem ones and the ones which just work.

I'm considering trying to fix the mismatched sidecar/embedded values (and possibly the greyed out "updating" metadata values) by deleting all of the sidecar files and forcing a metadata writeback for everything which isn't a standalone jpg.

[Mario]

Having RAW files with embedded XMP is always a problem, unless the XMP in the RAW has only a hard-coded "rating=none" and maybe a time stamp.

If your RAW files have keywords embedded in the embedded XMP, this will cause problems. IMatch does not write XMP into RAW files, except for DNG, where this is standard.

This cannot be figured out remotely. It will depend on your images, your file relation settings, propagation settings etc.

When you open the output panel (View menu > Panels) and then write-back a master, you can see the instructions IMatch is sending to ExifTool. Which files to write, which metadata to update etc.

[rolandgifford]

Having RAW files with embedded XMP is always a problem, unless the XMP in the RAW has only a hard-coded "rating=none" and maybe a time stamp.

Does the ECP preset "Delete XMP Metadata" delete embedded XMP or something else. I find RAW files with embedded xmp all the time.

[Mario]

You can use that preset.

[rolandgifford]

Does it leave the sidecar xmp alone?

I can easily move the sidecars out of the way before running the command but it is easier still to leave them there if I don't need to do that

[Mario]

Does it leave the sidecar xmp alone?

Yes.

If you are unsure, create a new folder, copy a RAW with the XMP into it, then apply the preset. Check the results afterwards in the ECP (List Metadata, List Metadata in XMP files) and the Metadata Analyst.