imatch won't add certain files

[timoteo]

I have a file named "TX-2011-03-13 13.25.33_Radiant" in a directory. This file was created today and is the output from a photo editor named "Radiant". I had started "Radiant", dragged-and-dropped image "TX-2011-03-13 13.25.33" from my "Texas" folder in imatch into Radiant. Once I had finished my edits, I saved the result as a jpg in the same disk directory as the original file and "Radiant" added the suffix "_radiant" to the file.  I waited a few minutes then checked my imatch folder for the new file and it was not there. I did a full "rescan" of this folder in imatch and searched imatch again and new file is still not displayed.

I checked the Windows File Manager for these two files and they do exist in the correct disk directory. Yesterday I did a handful of other edits on other files in this imatch folder with various images and the corresponding "_Radiant" file did show up in imatch. I've tried restarting imatch and even rebooting my computer but nothing has fixed my problem.

I set imatch logging to "debug" and have attached the log.

Can you tell me what's going on here?  

[Mario]

IMatch rescanned the folder D:\Pictures\Texas\ and found tons of files which are "current".
The file you mention is logged as

AddOrUpdate: D:\Pictures\Texas\TX-2011-03-13 13.25.33.JPG
File is current (1)

which means the file is in the database and up-to-date.
A while later,  the is checked again, this time the file is detected as modified and IMatch imports metadata, calculates the check sum, extracts a thumbnail  etc.

There is also a file processed with the name D:\Pictures\Texas\TX-2011-03-13 13.25.33_Radiant.jpg
Checkum. metadata import, thumbnail extract etc.

All OK.

I see that you have searched for TX-2011-03-13 13.25.33 and 2 results were found.

Looks all pretty normal to me.
How did you "check" the folder when you determined the file was not there? According to the logs, both files with the name you provided where processed / added OK.

[timoteo]

I enabled the displaying of rejected files and then repeated these same steps with a different file from the same folder. I waited a minue or two until imatch had time to add it. I searched for the file name "(TX-2011-03-13 13.37.37") and it found two files - the original and the "_Radiant" file but the "_Radiant" file is marked as rejected. I definitely didn't reject this file. Is there some built-in or user-configurable ruie/feature that would cause a file to be "automatically" rejected?

This is very hit-and-miss - most of the files I generate with Radiant and save show up in imatch as expected, but there are some of these "_Radiant" in this "Texas" directory and in a "Canada" directory where I was working yesterday that get flagges as "rejected". 

I have attached the latest imatch log file.  

[thrinn]

One feature that comes to my mind is automatically running a Metadata Template when new files are indexed. The idea is to set e.g. a Copyright info, but it can of course be "misused" to do strange things to metadata.


But setting newly indexed files automatically to "Rejected" would be a very strange thing to - and also something you would have to explicitly configure.

[Mario]

This is very hit-and-miss - most of the files I generate with Radiant and save show up in imatch as expected, but there are some of these "_Radiant" in this "Texas" directory and in a "Canada" directory where I was working yesterday that get flagges as "rejected". 

Maybe the file has a rejected rating already?

Select the rejected file in a File Window and run the ExifTool Command Processor from the Tools menu or via <F9>,<E>.
Select the "List Metadata" preset in the upper left corner and run it with <F9>.
Type rating into the search box at the bottom. Does the file containing a rating?

[timoteo]

One feature that comes to my mind is automatically running a Metadata Template when new files are indexed. The idea is to set e.g. a Copyright info, but it can of course be "misused" to do strange things to metadata.


But setting newly indexed files automatically to "Rejected" would be a very strange thing to - and also something you would have to explicitly configure.

Thanks for the suggestion, Thorsten. I am using still using imatch 2020 and it doesn't seem to have the "metadata" option you mentioned. 

[timoteo]

This is very hit-and-miss - most of the files I generate with Radiant and save show up in imatch as expected, but there are some of these "_Radiant" in this "Texas" directory and in a "Canada" directory where I was working yesterday that get flagges as "rejected".

Maybe the file has a rejected rating already?

Select the rejected file in a File Window and run the ExifTool Command Processor from the Tools menu or via <F9>,<E>.
Select the "List Metadata" preset in the upper left corner and run it with <F9>.
Type rating into the search box at the bottom. Does the file containing a rating?

I edited another file this same way and it showed up as rejected in imatch. The "rating" value for this  new "_Radiant" file is set to "-1".

[Mario]

The "rating" value for this  new "_Radiant" file is set to "-1". 

Which means Rejected.
When IMatch imports the metadata for this file, it will flag it as rejected, which is the correct behavior.

[timoteo]

Please explain why this is the expected behavior. The original file in imatch was not flagged as rejected; why would the resulting "_Radiant" be flagged as rejected? Please give me more info.

[Mario]

What do you mean by "resulting _Radiant"?
I've read your original post again just now, but I don't know how "_Radiant" is created? I'm confused.
In your photo editor?
You mention drag & drop but I don't understand what you mean.

IMatch does not set ratings by accident or by itself.
You can set ratings in the File Window or Viewer. Via metadata templates or file versioning with metadata propagation.

Please help us by describing step-by-step what you are doing.

[timoteo]

I start my photo editing tool Radiant photo editor. I select an image in imatch that i want to edit, then drag-and-drop the image from match into the photo editor. 

When finished editing, i save the edited image back to the original directory and the editor appends the suffix "Radiant" to the file name. Then i have the original, unmodified, and the edited image output from Radiant in the directory. I wait for imatch to automatically detect the new file and add it to imatch.

I search imatch for the original file name and it finds both the original file and the edited file. The original file is not shown as rejected or deleted.  The new file output from the photo editor may or may not show as rejected in imatch- it varies. Sometimes the new file shows as rejected while other times it is not shown as rejected in imatch. 

The "_Radiant" files referred to by name in this thread were shown as rejected in imatch.

[Mario]

The new file output from the photo editor may or may not show as rejected in imatch- it varies.

I suggest you have a look at the actual metadata in the file the Radiant software has produced.

Select it in IMatch and run the ExifTool Command Processor from the Tools menu.
Select the "List Metadata" preset in the upper left corner and run it with <F9>.
The metadata contained in the image now shows on the right.
Use the search box at the bottom to search for rating.

I assume that you will find a rating: -1 for the files IMatch shows as rejected. -1 means "rejected" and when IMatch imports a file with that rating, it has to display it as rejected.

[thrinn]

I am using still using imatch 2020 and it doesn't seem to have the "metadata" option you mentioned. 

This is an important information because IMatch 2020 is out of support for some while.

Please explain why this is the expected behavior. The original file in imatch was not flagged as rejected; why would the resulting "_Radiant" be flagged as rejected? Please give me more info.

Maybe Radiant software is setting the Reject rating? I don't know this software. Googling for their release notes, I found some hints for their 1.1.0.251 update which sounds to me that metadata handling is somewhat fuzzy. Apparently different behaviour between Windows and Mac version? Not respecting XMP? Issues (maybe now solved) with propagating metadata when exporting? Hm.

[Mario]

The ExifTool Command Processor is around since IMatch 2018.

Maybe Radiant software is setting the Reject rating?

That's my guess.

We either need to get our hands on one of the files produced by the Radiant software or we need to look at the actual metadata the software has produced in the ECP.
Can you upload a sample image that has this problem to your cloud space and post a link?
Or send it, with a link to this thread, to support email address

The bit of information I could find on their web site does not encourage a lot of trust in their metadata handling. It seems to have some limitations.

I would install a trial version to see for myself, but they want to collect name and email address, and that's not worth it.

[Jingo]

I just downloaded and installed Radiant Photo on a virtual box.  I copied an image without any rating information onto the virtual machine, launched Radiant, Saved the file (which added the _Radiant suffix) and imported the image into IMatch.  I ran the ECP and there is no rating information present in the file... so Radiant isn't auto-adding a -1 rating with default settings.

The software also doesn't offer any metadata editing nor offer options during save for metadata manipulation so I would examine the original file using ECP to see if it has a -1 rating already in place which is just being carried forward to the new saved radiant version.

As others have mentioned, it would be helpful to see both the original and _radiant files or ECP results to compare and help determine what is going on.

Hope this helps! - Andy.

[timoteo]

I sent an original file and the "_Radiant" version to the support email address because I couldn't find a way to attach them to this reply. Maybe Mario can make them public or attach them to this conversation so others can acess them.

[Mario]

Hi,
I have received the two files, thanks.

Both files contain XMP metadata.
The "original" has the value "Ver.2.2" in the software tag (which is not terrible helpful) and the radiant file reports "Radiant Photo 1.3.0.373" in the software tag.
Both files report "Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.4 (Windows)" in the History Software Agent tag, which indicates that the metadata was added/modified/touched by Lr at some point.

Both files specify the rating as -1 in the XMP data:

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[XMP-xmp] Rating: -1
Which means the file has been rejected. And IMatch marks them accordingly.
The XMP rating goes from 0 to 5. The value -1 means "rejected".

[timoteo]

It is possible the original has been edited in LR a long time ago, but it is not flagged as "rejected" in imatch when I drag-and-drop it into Radiant. I just repeated the problem by re-processing the original file in Radiant again and once again the resulting "_Radiant" is showed as rejected in imatch. The original still is not shown as rejected in imatch. 

[Mario]

Look at the metadata of the file.
Run the ExifTool Command Processor and select the "List Metadata" preset.
Run it with <F9>
Search for rating.

That's what I did with the two files you sent to me.

If the file contain [XMP-xmp] Rating: -1 IMatch will show the file as rejected, else not.
The only exception is when you have modified the rating in IMatch before a file is rescanned because it has been changed by another application, IMatch will retain the rating you have applied when the protection for rating/label is enabled under Edit menu > Preferences > Metadata 2.

For files coming new into the database, IMatch uses the XMP rating found in the file, if any.

[David_H]

It is possible the original has been edited in LR a long time ago, but it is not flagged as "rejected" in imatch when I drag-and-drop it into Radiant. I just repeated the problem by re-processing the original file in Radiant again and once again the resulting "_Radiant" is showed as rejected in imatch. The original still is not shown as rejected in imatch.

If you've changed the rating in IMatch so the original is no longer rejected, but not written back, then any subsequent processing of that original will propogate the incorrect (reject) rating. The history panel in imatch (if its in your version) might show some information here.

Also, if these are older images, is there a sidecar .xmp file for the source image with a rating in which is overriding the reject rating in the original, but when the original is processed, its reject rating carries through ?

[Mario]

Good points.

A rating in an XMP sidecar file in the same folder will override the embedded rating, by definition.

And modifying metadata in another application without writing back will not allow the other application to see the actual XMP data IMatch maintains.

[timoteo]

I downloaded and run exiftool from the command line against a random jpg file, specifying " exiftool -historysoftwareagent " filename and it ran but it returned nothing. 

I already have exif pilot and so ran that. I did "Export EXIF/ITPC/XMP to CSV" against file "TX-2011-03-27 16.19.22.JPG" (file sent to the support email a couple of days ago). I opened the resulting output file in Notepad++ and searched for "agent" and found nothing. 

Can someone tell me how to find "historysoftwareagent" info using imatch, exit pilot, or some other tool already on my Windows 11 computer, please? 

 

[timoteo]

David_H - no, I don't have any xmp files laying around. I searched the directory where the source file came from and there are no xmp files. 

[Mario]

Select the file in IMatch and run the ExifTool Command Processor from the Tools menu.
Run the "List Metadata" preset.
Search for hist.

For the TX-2011-03-27 16.19.22.JPG I see

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[XMP-xmpMM]    History Action                  : saved
[XMP-xmpMM]    History Changed                : /metadata
[XMP-xmpMM]    History Instance ID            : xmp.iid:5d38bab7-94e2-7748-a060-a14d663a6d58
[XMP-xmpMM]    History Software Agent          : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.4 (Windows)
[XMP-xmpMM]    History When                    : 2014:04:09 21:10:15-05:00

and for the other file

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[XMP-xmpMM]    History Action                  : saved
[XMP-xmpMM]    History Changed                : /metadata
[XMP-xmpMM]    History Instance ID            : xmp.iid:5d38bab7-94e2-7748-a060-a14d663a6d58
[XMP-xmpMM]    History Software Agent          : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.4 (Windows)
[XMP-xmpMM]    History When                    : 2014:04:09 21:10:15-05:00


[timoteo]

Two files, never processed by LR, have been sent by email to your support address regarding this issue. Neither image has been processed by LR - they were shot at least a decade after I stopped using LR. When I edit the original JPG (TX-2022-04-16 18.13.39.JPG) in Radiant and save it, imatch flags it as "rejected".

[Mario]

Both the JPG and the radiant JPG have a rating of -1 (aka rejected). So IMatch is correct when it shows both files as rejected. Was that the question?

The metadata in both applications was written / updated by IMatch.

The metadata in both files reports:

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[XMP-xmp]      Creator Tool                    : photools.com IMatch 20.14.0.2 (Windows)
Both files report a modified timestamp of 2022:04:25 06:49:23-05:00 (metadata update timestamp).

The first file reports

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[IFD0]          Software                        : Ver.1.03
[XMP-tiff]      Software                        : Ver.1.03
and the Radiant file reports

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[IFD0]          Software                        : Radiant Photo 1.3.0.373
[XMP-tiff]      Software                        : Ver.1.03
(which already indicates the first metadata problem, since Radiant has not synched IFD0 (EXIF) and the corresponding tag in XMP when it updated the Software. But anyways...)