A version of a stack top is only visible if the stack is expanded - OK or bug?

[ubacher]

I have a file A which I made the top of a manual stack with file B.
I then created a file A_1 which, because of my versioning rules, became a version of A.
Imatch does not display A_1 thumbnail as long as the stack A-B is collapsed.

Q: Is this how it is supposed to work? A_1 shows the Version icon but not the stack icon.


Details: All files are .jpg.
Preferences: Autostack copies set to ASK
                   Move/Copy entire stacks set to YES
I don't use version stacks. I just searched Help to find out how one specifies version stacks
but found no answer.
Note that Master and version have the same time - but I do not autostack at all.

[Mario]

None of the files is named A, B or C.
Version stacks are automatically formed by the master and its versions.
A 5 second search in the help (searching for versions) reveals Version Stacks
The file 2024-01-17 is part of a stack, but not a version. 1459 si a master and stack top. The other file is a version.

[ubacher]

So what confused me here is that the collapsing of a stack also collapses all version stacks
of files within the stack and vice versa.

I had created the version and it did not show up because the master was  a stack top and the stacks
were collapsed.  All caused by my lack of experience with stacks and version stacks in particular.
Sorry.

[Mario]

If you mix regular stacks and version stacks (putting masters and or versions also in a regular stack), things are somewhat undefined. Stacking and versioning and visibility criteria in File Windows are complex enough as it is. I'm not sure if IMatch is prepared for every fringe case, or if it would be worth spending time on dealing with them.

If you really have a need for this, first collapse the version stack(s) with <T> and then regular stack that contains the version stacks. Maybe add only masters to regular stacks, not sometimes versions and sometimes masters or both.

[Tveloso]

I use this arrangement quite often (where a given file is both the Master in a Version Stack, and is also the Stack Top in a Regular Stack).

I had never noticed that when the Regular Stack is collapsed, all of its (both stack and version) Member Files are also collapsed.  So using ubacher's example FileNames:

    Version Stack: A - A_1

    Regular Stack: A - B 

...and given a scope of only those three files, where both stacks are expanded (so we currently see all three of them), when (version) Stack A - A_1 is collapsed <T>, this results in two files visible in the FileWindow (the Version Stack is now collapsed, but the Regular Stack is still expanded).  But when (regular) Stack A - B is collapsed <Shift+C>, without first having collapsed the Version Stack, this results in only one visible file.

I can see the argument for both behaviors, but I think I like the current one...that if a Regular Stack should include one or more Version Sets, that those files should also be hidden behind the Stack Top of the Regular Stack (regardless of whether or not the Version Stacks are collapsed).

I don't use version stacks. I just searched Help to find out how one specifies version stacks
but found no answer.

I don't think that there's an option for establishing a Version Set that does not form a Stack...so by definition, a Version Set creates a Version Stack, that can be expanded/collapsed <T> just as a Regular Stack can <Shift+E and Shift+C>

Incidentally, I noticed that when we collapse a Version Stack the Master Icon also changes slightly to indicate the collapsed state:

   

...but the Stack Top Icon does not (it looks the same for both states of the Stack).  It might be cool for the Stack Top Icon to also have the same "stacked edge lines" (horizontally there of course) as the Master Icon has, when a Regular Stack is collapsed.

[sinus]

I use this arrangement quite often (where a given file is both the Master in a Version Stack, and is also the Stack Top in a Regular Stack)
...

Thanks for your detailled explanations.

I do the same like you described above, using version stacks and regular stacks.
But from my experiences I can stress, what Mario wrote above:
 If you mix regular stacks and version stacks (putting masters and or versions also in a regular stack), things are somewhat undefined.

I can remember, many years ago, I struggled with "ghostly vanished files". They were simply not more viewable and I had really a hard time to get them back. Some were lost, but I had of course a backup. 

If I remember correct, then this was the problem:

You have e.g. like me a nef-file (raw).
Now you create a version, say a jpg from the nef.

So you have a version-stack, the nef is the master of the version-stack.

Now you want stack them with a regular stack. 
You creates now a regular stack, with the jpg as top of the stack.

Means, the jpg is a version of the version-stack (not the master).
And the jpg is the top of the regular stack.

And this is, if I remember correctly, a very dangerous combination. 

1) Collapse the version stack, then the nef will be on screen alone, the jpg is hidden
2) And now stack the regular-stack with Ctlr left arrow. 

The files are vanished. Disappeared. 
And if you do this by accident with several hundert images, it is no fun.

When this happend to me (long ago), IMatch had not the button at the top to "Enable this to reveal files hidden by collapsed stacks). 
I think, this button could save you nowadays. 

 I hope, I wrote it here correct, because regular stacks and versions stacks uses both unfortunately the word stack. 

Finally here I want only stress the sentence from Mario, what is very true in my opinion. 

[Tveloso]

Thank you Markus.

In my case, the folder structure I use ensures that I'm working only with Masters when creating Regular Stacks.  So, I can't even see the Versions in the scope I usually work with, when Stacking Files, and I therefore cannot create the combination that you warned about.

I have instances of this condition:

     (File is a Master and the Top of a Regular Stack)

...and of this one:

    (File is a Master and the Member of a Regular Stack)

...but am unable to create either of these conditions:

    (File is a Version and the Top of a Regular Stack)
    (File is a Version and the Member of a Regular Stack)

...(which includes the condition you have warned about), unless I intentionally create a Scope that would allow it.

But as you said, the File Window Toolbar/Ribbon button, which makes files hidden by collapsed stacks of either type, now visible in the file Window, should eliminate that concern.

[sinus]

Great, Tony, 

I see, you know, what you are doing!