Whats a cheap and good AI keywording tool iMatch supports?

[kirk]

Is it necessary to upload GBs  of images somewhere and keep them online like with lightroom?  Are those AI tools any helpful  now?   I once tried ( few years ago) and they did a mess of unrelated keywords.     Any progress lately? 

Does anyone know an AI that would recognize texture images?   Like normal . spec and albedo map of same material ?   

[Mario]

No AI tool I'm aware of supports texture files.

Is it necessary to upload GBs  of images somewhere and keep them online like with lightroom? 

What? I don't understand.

Are those AI tools any helpful  now? 

Maybe check out this post and video: https://www.photools.com/community/index.php/topic,14296.msg100510.html#msg100510

It's a bit older, but we've ran tests with selected users for the past couple of months and IMatch 2025 will indeed include "more" modern AI for keywording, descriptions the the unique IMatch traits feature I'll introduce in IMatch 2025.

I once tried ( few years ago) and they did a mess of unrelated keywords.     Any progress lately? 

We currently calculate AI progress in weeks, not years. Things are moving and improving very fast and modern LLM AI's do an amazing job for things like describing images, producing keywords, detecting objects and stuff.

I've did a lot of work to incorporate modern AIs running in the cloud and locally on your PC into IMatch 2025. Just wait, people will enjoy it.

[kirk]

No AI tool I'm aware of supports texture files.

Is it necessary to upload GBs  of images somewhere and keep them online like with lightroom? 

What? I don't understand.

I actually have Lightroom with Photoshop subscription  but haven't used it for years. 

 I shoot  image series  for photogrammetry ( recreating  actual 3d object or surface of a material). Thousands of just hq JPGs.       So last time I had been curious enough about Lightroom   there were two software: Classic and just Lightroom.   AI keywording worked only in non Classic one  and worked only in  Adobe cloud storage . So you had to upload  the files to the cloud first.      In my case I would  need  to do it for thousands hi res  jpgs.    Have it changed since and now you can do it on your local files?

 As of AI I was super exited about anything AI years ago but since  haven't seen anything AI and convenient.   Ai selection in Photoshop  works for humans and cats  and never for anything material related like selecting  rusted or high roughness areas. Generative fill usually does something blurry, repetitive   and unusable  and oh boy, what a mess if you want it to extend/create  height map (most important part of a material).
   Adobe Sampler  actually has somewhat  better generative AI but does materials /textures of so bad quality  , so full of blurry errors and inconsistencies,   nobody in actual CG industry uses it . Jobs in CG are too competitive to allow yourself  mediocre quality.
   And no progress at all for years already.  It's all in sort of stall state for a very long.    The only AI that's useful  is chat GPT  that able to write Python scripts for 3d soft  and I haven't seen any actual improvement in this  for years too. It just gets slower and slower.    So I have my doubts.  

[Mario]

I guess that's just a very niche field and not much money is in it. AI's understand only what they have been trained on.

Probably you'll have to train your own AI model from scratch, for your specific purpose. Or use an existing model and do fine-tuning / transfer learning to teach it to understand textures better. Doable, but probably quite expensive and time-consuming.

I would expect that this is something the 3D and animation software vendors would spend money on, if there would be a market or some competitive gain in having this.

IMatch is a general purpose DAM. Having AI support for describing images, adding keywords, detecting objects like cars, animals, signs, text etc. is what we need.

[philburton]

I shoot  image series  for photogrammetry ( recreating  actual 3d object or surface of a material). Thousands of just hq JPGs.      So last time I had been curious enough about Lightroom  there were two software: Classic and just Lightroom. 

Still just Classic and "cloudy" Lightroom but they now have a series of "cloudy" products, including one called "Desktop."  Since I use only Classic, I haven't really paid attention to the "cloudy" suite of products.

AI keywording worked only in non Classic one  and worked only in  Adobe cloud storage . So you had to upload  the files to the cloud first. 

That is true for Adobe's auto keywording.  There are third party products https://www.thephoblographer.com/2023/10/02/the-best-ai-keywording-plugins-for-adobe-lightroom-classic/  I haven't used any of them, because they don't address y needs for keywording.

The only AI that's useful  is chat GPT  that able to write Python scripts for 3d soft  and I haven't seen any actual improvement in this  for years too. It just gets slower and slower.    So I have my doubts. 

I tried to get ChatGPT to write PL/1 programs (never mind why ...)  It seemed that a lot of the time ChatGPT retured C or C++ code, not PL/1 code.

[kirk]

Thanks philburton.    I am too lazy to try Lightroom again and check if AI keywording still works in cloud storage only.    but anyway last time I tried it Ai could recognize photos but not textures where you have to get rid of lighting information , like albedo or base color.   

Chat GPT works best for Blender . open source 3d-2d animation soft. My guess because its open nature.     Almost every script or command I asked worked .    Not so good for commercial Autodesk soft like 3d max  or java scripts  for Adobe  Photoshop  . Never works  right away .  Never managed to do anything working for Substance Designer  while it support Python scripts too.

It's  sometimes even fan to persuade GPT to wright something for 3d max . It doesn't want to do it and reply you "see in documentation"  , start to invent things out of thin air or even simply misinform you.

Imo evry software developer now should make new software chatGPT friendly  so we could easily  request  any scripted automation or feature from chatGPT.   

[philburton]

[qquote author=kirk link=msg=102085 date=1726581164]
Thanks philburton.    I am too lazy to try Lightroom again and check if AI keywording still works in cloud storage only.    but anyway last time I tried it Ai could recognize photos but not textures where you have to get rid of lighting information , like albedo or base color.
[/quote]

I am going to hazard a guess that discerning albedo will require specialized training.  Just a guess of course. 

start to invent things out of thin air or even simply misinform you.

A major issue now is that "hallucination."

Imo evry software developer now should make new software chatGPT friendly  so we could easily  request  any scripted automation or feature from chatGPT. 

Of course, but probably easier said than done.  If I were a "typical" software developer I would be waitng to see which LLM has the biggest market share or acceptance.  Supporting multiple AI APIs could get tricky.