How can I totally misunderstand or not understand the search mechanism

[reader]

This will probably turn out to be the lamest post in a good while here, but I am finding that I can not find a single stinking file using the search bar.

Click in the search box, press f1.  After blowing thru that, (admittedly fairly quickly) I go back and find that nothing I've just read happens.  I mean nothing even vaguely resembling the search bar help text happens when I enter a string in the search bar.

The help says its similar to the search in windows explorer... but it is not even close.   Windows explorer will actually find the string I put in it if there is one.   The help says, imatch delays the search as long as you type... well maybe, but I haven't been able to type in the full `zoey' yet, before the file window has closed up shop.  You have to really be speedy typing.

I must be just horribly misunderstanding something.

I've scrolled clear to the bottom of the @all category view in file window where I see 5 files with little zoey in them.  The names all have zoey somewhere in them.

Ok, so all that is showing in the file window is 5 images all with zoey somewhere in the name.

I quickly type zoey into the search bar, and inside of 1 second I see that '@all' with '@keywords' and  '@builder' below, with there own grey bar extending across the file window.  And no explanation of what has just happened. Not an image in sight.  And if I keep fiddling around with search box, I find the '@ll' bar and friends has been replaced by a bar that says 'Multiple selection'.  Once that happens no further action is possible.  No amount of clicking on the 'clear search' things will help.... just can not do anything further.

I seem to have to leave categories and go to data base view and then come back to categories to clear that "multiple selection" bar.

All of this sounds like something out of the twilight zone.  Or some kind of comedy maybe.... but maddening as hell in a serious image manipulation tool.

Surely this is not what is expected to happen.  Have I hit upon a massive bug, or is the search mechanism not ready for use yet?
Surely one can do the simplest of searches for file names without rendering the whole of Imatch5 totally useless.

Hopefully someone will patiently point out my folly. 

[herman]

As Mario indicated in an other topic he is working on replacing the search engine.

[Mario]

A better search bar is in the works and will be shipped with the next build.

For now, please make sure you read the help for the search bar. Especially about how the full-word search works:

partial words can be found from the beginning only, so

onthebeach

can be found by searching for "on" but not by searching for "beach"

on the beach

can be found by searching for any of "on", "the", or beach.

[reader]

A better search bar is in the works and will be shipped with the next build.

For now, please make sure you read the help for the search bar. Especially about how the full-word search works:

partial words can be found from the beginning only, so

onthebeach

can be found by searching for "on" but not by searching for "beach"

on the beach

can be found by searching for any of "on", "the", or beach.

After having read thru the thread another poster referred to, where you laid out your plans for the search tools, I feel a little embarrassed for having sniveled so loud and long.

First, a big thank you is in order for all work you've undertaken.  So thank you sir.

I agreed with your notions about what search should do.  But one thing I would add.  However, I'm afraid it may be something of dealbreaker to include.  I like to use Regular Expressions.  You can hardly find a search engine anymore that uses regular expressions.  Probably because its slow by comparison and extremely cpu intensive.

None the less, the old Imatch had it, and that was what I inevitably turned to.  There is simply no other search language/syntax that is quite as agile is sniffing out just what you are after.

So it has 2 strikes to start off: Not fast and cpu intensive.
There is yet a third strike:  User has to know the language to some degree, but that is tempered by the fact that simple words or word parts can find a very lot of stuff.

I come from a linux background and am used to search tools using Regular expressions, 'grep' and family are all Regex tools.  Perl relies on regex heavily.

Anyone familiar at all with regex will greatly benefit from having that kind of search available.

Whereas, I realize one of your top priorities is speed, that is not always what is desired.  Sometimes, even often times perhaps, an accurate search is more desirable... one where you may take several experimental runs while honing the regex... but finally being able to get the results you want.

Given the 3 strikes I've mentioned: Is there any chance at all that a regex search could be part of the new forthcoming setup?  It is already a big part of the `filter' mechanism.

One place that comes to mind where regex can really shine would be searches targeted at exif data, and in particular the date.
If one knows the date format used by their camera or cameras, then it is possible to pull up particular groups of months, weeks, days or even hours etc using regular expressions.

[BenAW]

@reader

I fell into the same trap with the Search as you did. Glad Mario takes the time to improve the Search.

For anything more complex than a search on one or more keywords, use the filter. It has all you desire and than some.

[Mario]

Given the 3 strikes I've mentioned: Is there any chance at all that a regex search could be part of the new forthcoming setup?  It is already a big part of the `filter' mechanism.

Why don't you just use the file name filter? It supports regular expression.
You can also use the Metadata Search Filter which searches the entire database, and also supports regular expressions.

These filters are the main tools for searching for file names and metadata. And they support all you want.


The simple search bar on top of the file window was intended for quick searches using a limited set of features. And it will continue to do so (albeit improved with the next build).

[reader]

Given the 3 strikes I've mentioned: Is there any chance at all that a regex search could be part of the new forthcoming setup?  It is already a big part of the `filter' mechanism.

Why don't you just use the file name filter? It supports regular expression.
You can also use the Metadata Search Filter which searches the entire database, and also supports regular expressions.

These filters are the main tools for searching for file names and metadata. And they support all you want.

The simple search bar on top of the file window was intended for quick searches using a limited set of features. And it will continue to do so (albeit improved with the next build).

Thank you Mario and BenAW.

Yes I went to the filters and am finding anything I want. 

However, There is a very good chance that users who are not as likely to poor thru the manual, will be somewhat confused by the fact that there are two obvious 'search' dialogs visible on main page and yet neither of them has the serious search tools.

You could almost patent that as a guaranteed way to confuse users.
I think we can guess where a new user is going to look to do searches, and yet neither of those have the serious search tools, or give any indication that there are more powerful and useful tools available.

Most users are going to be preconditioned to expect a header that says 'Search' to lead to the main search tools. So, while it is important to have this all documented in help file, It seems also that it might be good to arrange the main Menu so that it is clear where to go for serious searching.  Maybe something along the line of a tree of choices under the Search menu item.  Maybe three sub heads, something like:

Search/
............Advanced Search (more options for refined searching with filters and regular expressions)
............Search for common groupings: (duplicates, GPS, Visually similar and more)
............Basic search of `File' window (simple word or 'string' searches. Basic boolean operators as needed)
(way over verbose but you get the idea)

That first sub item would open the filter search panel.   So two clicks would take you to the serious search filter area and it would be apparent right from the first glance where to look for searching options.
The last one would move cursor to the 'Files' window.

I guess this might all sound like a lot of 'fluff' to you advanced users... but I guess if users like me with thick skulls and less experience are also targeted as Imatch5 users, then it would make sense to see to it that the interface be as obvious as possible Or to coin a brand new phrase never used before `intuitive' ... hehe.

[sinus]

.  Maybe three sub heads, something like:

Search/
............Advanced Search (more options for refined searching with filters and regular expressions)
............Search for common groupings: (duplicates, GPS, Visually similar and more)
............Basic search of `File' window (simple word or 'string' searches. Basic boolean operators as needed)
(way over verbose but you get the idea)

That first sub item would open the filter search panel.   So two clicks would take you to the serious search filter area and it would be apparent right from the first glance where to look for searching options.
The last one would move cursor to the 'Files' window.

I guess this might all sound like a lot of 'fluff' to you advanced users... but I guess if users like me with thick skulls and less experience are also targeted as Imatch5 users, then it would make sense to see to it that the interface be as obvious as possible Or to coin a brand new phrase never used before `intuitive' ... hehe.

Here I must say, that I agree with this.
In a (new) program I wait for ONE field or ONE menu to search. From there, if possible, I will be leaded to all possible searches. So as a user I can be sure, not to miss some other good, "hidden" searches.

I can remember in the old IMatch3 - days once was a large "forum - post - war" about searching. And finally you added some submenues under a menue "search" and since then users have been silent. Maybe you can remember, Mario

[Mario]

And finally you added some submenues under a menue "search" and since then users have been silent. Maybe you can remember, Mario

The Search menu is only for "special" searches. For all else, we use the Filter Panel. That should not be too hard to handle.
The Filter panel can be configured in the way you like it. You show/hide only the filters which you use. This keeps the Filter panel tidy and simple.

The Search menu, the easy search bar above the file window and the Filter panel now exist since the initial Alpha version of IMatch 5. I don't make changes on the level suggested here (even if I would consider it) before IMatch 5 is out. Please add a proper feature request if you suggest changes or have an idea. That's what the dedicated Feature Request board is for.

[reader]

And finally you added some submenues under a menue "search" and since then users have been silent. Maybe you can remember, Mario

The Search menu is only for "special" searches. For all else, we use the Filter Panel. That should not be too hard to handle.
The Filter panel can be configured in the way you like it. You show/hide only the filters which you use. This keeps the Filter panel tidy and simple.

And the filter setup is wonderful, full featured and just a great search tool.  And yes, its clear users can handle it.
but I  guess I don't understand why a search menu item is not used to direct those users to the proper tools.  After all, it does say 'Search' in big bold letters.

With my possibly limited computer experience, I have learned to expect with any tool I'm using, if I want to do searching... I look for the 'Search' menu.... I don't often think of filters as being the same as searching.  I agree that the result in Im5 filter area is the same as a search.  But I'm guessing many folks would think of filtering as something you do to exclude certain things from your view.  Like filtering out all *.jpg or the like, allowing a clear field while you work on *.psd formatted files.

While one thinks of searching as seeking out specific files to bring them to your view, not exclude them.

Semantics? Well possibly but I still think people would look to the search menu if they wanted to search.

The Search menu, the easy search bar above the file window and the Filter panel now exist since the initial Alpha version of IMatch 5. I don't make changes on the level suggested here (even if I would consider it) before IMatch 5 is out. Please add a proper feature request if you suggest changes or have an idea. That's what the dedicated Feature Request board is for.

Point well taken, and I'll spend some time looking that over... thank you.

[Mario]

The Feature Request board is the proper place. You can also see what's already there - plenty of months of work for me after IMatch 5 has been shipped.

As per your comment, I think about adding an "Open Filter Panel" menu item to the Search menu.

[reader]

The Feature Request board is the proper place. You can also see what's already there - plenty of months of work for me after IMatch 5 has been shipped.

As per your comment, I think about adding an "Open Filter Panel" menu item to the Search menu.

Thanks for your consideration.

[Mario]

I've added a "Open Filter panel for more search features..." command.

The name is a bit long. But a shorter name like Open Filter Panel... may mean nothing for a user who is looking for search options and has never read the help file file about searching and filtering.