Keywords in Thesaurus vs. @Keywords in Categories View

[pajaro]

I am still learning how to use IMatch most efficiently and I was just testing the Keywords Panel. It seems to me that it may be more suitable for me to assign keywords using Thesaurus than @Keywords in the Category Panel. But I probably do not understand philosophy of keywords in Thesaurus. Here is my problem: I built Thesaurus by importing keywords from the database and then used keywords in Thesaurus to assign to my files. So far so good. The problem arose when I added a new keyword. If I used the Category Panel to add a new @Keyword, I was able to import it into Thesaurus only after the @Keyword was assign to at least one file. I then tried to add a new keyword from the Keyword Panel (right-click, Add to Thesaurus). It worked nicely. But now, the confusing part: I deleted the keyword using the Thesaurus Manager - it clearly worked, I was no longer able to locate it in Thesaurus. However, it remained in the Categories View (or the Category Panel). From there I had to delete it manually. What am I missing? Thanks for any input.

Pavel.

[jch2103]

From the Help (Editing Thesaurus Elements):

Deleting, renaming or moving elements in the thesaurus will not change metadata contained in your files. The thesaurus is not linked with the metadata in your files in any way. It is just a repository for text and text templates. See the Keyword Panel for information on how to replace or change existing keywords.

[pajaro]

From the Help (Editing Thesaurus Elements):

Deleting, renaming or moving elements in the thesaurus will not change metadata contained in your files. The thesaurus is not linked with the metadata in your files in any way. It is just a repository for text and text templates. See the Keyword Panel for information on how to replace or change existing keywords.

Thanks, yes, I found that in the Help (perhaps I had to say I read the Help ) but here is I what I do not understand: if the @Keyword exists and I find the corresponding keyword in the Thesaurus and assign it to the file using the Keyword Panel, the yellow pen appears and after synchronization the @Keyword is written into xmp. So, in my mind, if the keyword in the Thesaurus is not linked with the metadata in the files this should not happen (in other words, if there is no link between the Thesaurus and the metadata how come that I can assign and unassign @Keywords with the help of the Thesaurus). Sorry, probably a dump questions, but as I said I do not understand the philosophy of the Thesaurus.

[Ferdinand]

It's best to think of the thesaurus as just a look-up table.  If a file has a keyword with a matching entry in the thesaurus, then the thesaurus shows that keyword with a check-mark.  You can assign and unassign keywords using this look-up table.  But if you delete an entry in the thesaurus, it won't change anything in your files, since it is just a look-up table. 

What you need to do is select all the files with that keyword, remove it from your files (perhaps using the thesuarus, but there are also other ways), enable write-back, and then delete the thesaurus entry.

Many people wouldn't want the thesaurus hard-linked to the keywords in their files, since their thesaurus contains taxonomies which are maintained externally.

[pajaro]

It's best to think of the thesaurus as just a look-up table.  If a file has a keyword with a matching entry in the thesaurus, then the thesaurus shows that keyword with a check-mark.  You can assign and unassign keywords using this look-up table.  But if you delete an entry in the thesaurus, it won't change anything in your files, since it is just a look-up table. 

What you need to do is select all the files with that keyword, remove it from your files (perhaps using the thesuarus, but there are also other ways), enable write-back, and then delete the thesaurus entry.

Many people wouldn't want the thesaurus hard-linked to the keywords in their files, since their thesaurus contains taxonomies which are maintained externally.

Thanks, Ferdinand, it's a very good explanation. So, the thesaurus can be used as a sort of proxy for Categories Panel to assign the @Keywords with the limitation of creating new and deleting unwanted @Keywords. For my purpose the UI of the Keyword Panel is better than the Categories Panel therefore I am trying to understand what the thesaurus does and does not do.

[DigPeter]

Thanks, Ferdinand, it's a very good explanation. So, the thesaurus can be used as a sort of proxy for Categories Panel to assign the @Keywords with the limitation of creating new and deleting unwanted @Keywords. For my purpose the UI of the Keyword Panel is better than the Categories Panel therefore I am trying to understand what the thesaurus does and does not do.

The Thesaurus does not actually do anything except exist.  It is merely a list of your KWs and potential KWs which you might use in the future.  Hence, as Ferdinand states, it is very useful for taxonomies, such as biological terms, which is the reason I use it.  So, if I have a complex scientific term, the Thesaurus provides a handy check list and the correct spelling, thus ensuring data consistency.  Also like you I find it suits me better as a UI.

I use the Thesaurus panel exclusively for KW assignment and unassignment.  If the KW does not exist, I first create it in the Thesaurus, then click in the box next to the new entry to assign it to the selected file(s).  To unassign, select the file(s);  in KW panel, right click on the KW in top sectioon where all their KWs are shown, then click delete and save by clicking the green mark at the top.  In general, I do not then delete the KW from the Thesaurus.  But if a KW is renamed or deleted from it, there is no effect on existing KW assignments for any of the files.

[pajaro]

I use the Thesaurus panel exclusively for KW assignment and unassignment.  If the KW does not exist, I first create it in the Thesaurus, then click in the box next to the new entry to assign it to the selected file(s).  To unassign, select the file(s);  in KW panel, right click on the KW in top sectioon where all their KWs are shown, then click delete and save by clicking the green mark at the top.  In general, I do not then delete the KW from the Thesaurus.  But if a KW is renamed or deleted from it, there is no effect on existing KW assignments for any of the files.

Thanks for the info, it is very helpful. I am glad the Keyword Panel can be used the way I hoped for  .

[Ferdinand]

For my purpose the UI of the Keyword Panel is better than the Categories Panel therefore I am trying to understand what the thesaurus does and does not do.

I find that keyword entry is faster in the keyword panel for one reason.  Rather than trying to browse the hierarchy, at the bottom (I think - I'm travelling and so can't check this exactly) there is a filter field for keywords.  If you start to type in it, it shows the matching keywords.  This really speeds up the workflow.  I wish the categories panel had one of these.

The thesaurus does really assist in data consistency.  And it isn't just for keywords - you can use it for other metadata fields as well.  It is useful for geographic fields, where data consistency is hard to achieve. 3.6 had field-specific thesauri as well, which were for useful for data consistency.  Of course in the keywords panel you only see the thesaurus for keywords, but you can edit the thesaurus from there.

It's probably useful reading through the help file on this, several times.

[pajaro]

I find that keyword entry is faster in the keyword panel for one reason.  Rather than trying to browse the hierarchy, at the bottom (I think - I'm travelling and so can't check this exactly) there is a filter field for keywords.  If you start to type in it, it shows the matching keywords.  This really speeds up the workflow.  I wish the categories panel had one of these.

Yes, exactly for this reason I like the Keyword Panel better. My category tree is rather complex and in the Category Panel it sometimes takes time to locate the @Keyword I am about to assign. The matching keywords that appear in the filter field of the Keyword Panel really speed things up considerably. Having this in the Category Panel would be very helpful.

It's probably useful reading through the help file on this, several times.

Yes, I agree