Assistance with Versions please

[Aubrey]

Following earlier emails on this board, I have decided to start to work with versions as I am starting to use Lightroom (NX2 demise ). I have read the manual and started to experiment. Now I have a number of questions.

Q1.
I started with the default NEF versioning. My NEF's have an orange rectangle on the bottom and the DNG's have a blue triangle.
In the Preferences, File Relation (Versioning Tab) I highlighted "NEF Versioning" and selected Use this version "As Visual". I expected that then the DNG files would be hidden. This is not the case, is my interpretation of what happens incorrect? (I know I can hide DNGs using the "File Properties of the filter, by selecting on "Hide Versions")

Q2.
I have then tried to make the DNG the master, attached is my attempt. However even after Refresh Relations (F4,R) on all the files, the NEF remains the master. What is wrong with my DNG versioning setup? I copied the NEF versioning and then modified it.

Q3.
Really dependent on the other answers, but I'll ask here. I would only like to display the last version of my DNG's. There may well be more than one if edits in LR are performed at different times. Can this be easily done?

Thanks,
Aubrey.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[Jingo]

HI...

Q3 - are you saying you have more than 1 DNG file in LR for each NEF file?  The beauty of DNG is the fact that LR allows you to embed an updated preview inside the file... so, you should just update the DNG file with your latest LR changes and those changes will appear in IMatch when you view the file.

In terms of versioning - if you are using DNG files, I probably wouldn't even include the NEF file in your database (and don't use versioning)... there really is little need to link these files together and there are advantages in not doing so ie: no need to setup versioning and visual proxies.

If you weren't using DNG's, then you would version the NEF and perhaps JPG/TIFF exported from LR.... your "legacy" NEF images should have updated previews already from NX2 which does update the NEF's so I guess I'm not sure why you need versioning at all?

Hope this doesn't confuse you more... there are many ways to use IMatch!

[Aubrey]

Jingo,
In principle your idea would work. I would still like to understand "Versions" and so my first 2 questions are awaiting an answer!

Thanks,
Aubrey

[thrinn]

Q1: If you define a version as a visual proxy,  it will be used instead of the master file for display. So in your case, IMatch will show the DNG instead of the NEF in the viewer, for example. But that doesn't mean that the DNG will be hidden. It is possible to hide versions in the file window using version stacks.

Q2: Hm, just looking at your definition it seems correct to me. Can't try it by myself at the moment. I assume your files are stored in the same folder? Do they have the same name with the exception of the extension, of course?

[Aubrey]

Thrinn,
Q1
I have set the DNG version to be the only As Visual. however in the file viewer and slide viewer both the NEF and DNG are shown.... still working on it!

Q2
Appears to be working today, I did an F4,R  rebuild and DNG is now master. (both files are in same folder, only difference is the name of the extension).


Investigating version stacks....

Thanks,
Aubrey.

[Erik]

I was going to suggest that you have to refresh the version relationships (F4,R) after you change relationships in the preferences or disable relationships.

-Erik

[Mario]

Thrinn,
Q1
I have set the DNG version to be the only As Visual. however in the file viewer and slide viewer both the NEF and DNG are shown.... still working on it!

Of course. Making one file a proxy for another file does not hide that file in the file window. I here assume that you mean the file window when you write file viewer?
Making the DNG a visual proxy for the NEF just tells IMatch that it should use the DNG as the source for the NEF for the thumbnail and in the Viewer/Slide Show.

To hide files in the file window, lookup the topics in the help:

Version Stacks
Stacks
Filters

[Ferdinand]

I'm a little puzzled by the idea that you ingest files into the IMatch database that you don't want to see.  If you don't want to see them ever, then store them outside the folders indexed by IMatch.

If on the other hand you want to see them occasionally, perhaps version stacks are the answer, or perhaps they could be.  You collapse the stack and you only see one file - the top file.  At the moment if you collapse a version stack then the master is automatically the top file in the stack.  What you would need for this to work for you is to be able to specify a version to be the top file, in much the same way that you specify a visual proxy now.  There is a feature request lodged for this.  if you think if might be the answer for your requirements you can add a comment of support:
https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=1614.0

[Aubrey]

Hi Ferdinand,
I'm migrating from Capture NX2 and had been working with NEF files. I think that I want to move to DNG files and so when I have loaded my files into a folder I will convert them all to DNG, a selection of these will be processed in Lightroom. I might occasionally go to NX2, but I want to wean myself off this software due to lack of future support, hence I want to have versions.
NEF will have to be the master, but I will work with DNG and therefore versioning and auto stacking is the plan. It is likely that files that have been "processed will also be given ratings, these will appear on the top of the stack.

Now that I have got versions and stacks reasonably straight in my mind I think my setup is working OK... we'll see over the coming weeks.

(I also load "untouched" NEF files into a separate folder/disk, for extra safety)

In any case it's fun to try out features in IMatch and determine if there is a use for them to improve workflow.

Thanks for your input,
Aubrey.

[Jingo]

Hi Ferdinand,
I'm migrating from Capture NX2 and had been working with NEF files. I think that I want to move to DNG files and so when I have loaded my files into a folder I will convert them all to DNG, a selection of these will be processed in Lightroom. I might occasionally go to NX2, but I want to wean myself off this software due to lack of future support, hence I want to have versions.
NEF will have to be the master, but I will work with DNG and therefore versioning and auto stacking is the plan. It is likely that files that have been "processed will also be given ratings, these will appear on the top of the stack.

Now that I have got versions and stacks reasonably straight in my mind I think my setup is working OK... we'll see over the coming weeks.

(I also load "untouched" NEF files into a separate folder/disk, for extra safety)

In any case it's fun to try out features in IMatch and determine if there is a use for them to improve workflow.

Thanks for your input,
Aubrey.

I guess I too am confused (as I mentioned up above) what the benefit of loading the NEF files into IMatch is?   In your situation, I would:
  a) Import all NEF files that are already edited in NX2 - the previews will already have the updates from your edits in that software along with embedded metadata... so nothing further is needed for these files.
  b) Moving forward, I would import new NEF camera images into LR, convert them to DNG and mirror the NEF files in a folder OUTSIDE of the watch path of IMatch as Ferdinand suggested.  Your NEF becomes your digital negative and your DNG file is now your edit file.  The DNG file would then be edited in LR and I would use the Update Metadata and Preview option to then update the DNG.
  c) Only then, would I import the DNG (or IMatch would do this automatically through a watched folder) into IMatch and continue your metadata, rating, etc on the DNG file.

No versioning needed, no stacking needed, no visual proxies needed... If you ever did need to update a NEF file, you would have to start over anyway if using LR so the same process in b/c would be followed for these files.  If you didn't want to start over, then you could still use NX2 and just update the NEF preview and IMatch would show you these new changes.

Am I missing something here? Lots of ways to get the job done... but I don't think versioning is needed in your situation.... makes things a lot quicker and easier too.   

[sinus]

Hi Ferdinand,
I'm migrating from Capture NX2 and had been working with NEF files. I think that I want to move to DNG files and so when I have loaded my files into a folder I will convert them all to DNG, a selection of these will be processed in Lightroom.

Hi Aubrey
I work also with NEF, and had last year cracked from DNG-side to xmp-sidecars-side.
A short time I wanted go the DNG-line, but after some more reading and thinking I decided against DNG.
Now I will go (and are already inside the test-phase) the xmp-sidecar line.
I want nothing say against DNG, it can be a fine thing, I decided simply against it.

You want "hold" your NEF also, I have understood? One way would be, to embedd your RAW inside the DNG, and then delete the nef. If  you hold also your nef, this is simply an additional backup.
If you do so, you could really to think, hold the nef as a backup, and put the DNG and versions inside IMatch. But not the nef. You should only be sure, that you can always find the right nef, if one day necessary, means the DNG and the nef should have somewhere the same name.

It depends also, how many images you have. If we speak from 10'000, then I would hold all into IMatch.
If we speak from 100'000, then I would think about split them (nef backup outside IM, DNG and versions inside).

NEF will have to be the master, but I will work with DNG and therefore versioning and auto stacking is the plan. It is likely that files that have been "processed will also be given ratings, these will appear on the top of the stack.

Now that I have got versions and stacks reasonably straight in my mind I think my setup is working OK... we'll see over the coming weeks.

(I also load "untouched" NEF files into a separate folder/disk, for extra safety)
In any case it's fun to try out features in IMatch and determine if there is a use for them to improve workflow.
Thanks for your input,
Aubrey.

So I think, you want put the untouched NEFs also in a separate folder, so as a backup. Fine, as I pointed out above.
Now you must think, do you want have these untouched NEFs really as master, or simply as backup, just in case.
Finally, if you have DNG, you will normally only work with the nef and not mor use the untouched Nefs.

I do not know exactly, but if you prefere, you could surely create a version rule, where then all, NEFs, DNG, versions are involved.

If you work with DNGs, I believe, you must not really work with proxies, because the DNG hold mostly the correct, edited "version" inside the DNG as a preview(?), this means, that the DNG would display automatically the correct preview, contrary to the NEF. I am not sure, is this true.

If you have several versions, then you could work with proxies, but then, like Ferdinand showed my feature-request-link, it is (from my point of view) not that convenient.

We see, every user has its own problems and workflow, and every user must first "deal" to find his/hers best workflow.

Not easy, but makes also fun.