Imatch5.pts.bak file

P.Jones · September 07, 2014, 11:14:13 PM

I keep finding Imatch5.pts.bak files in my recycle bin, using 5.2.2

Don't remember ever seeing these using 5.1.14

Anyone else seeing this?

jch2103 · September 07, 2014, 11:27:28 PM

Not here.

photoken · September 08, 2014, 05:12:39 AM

Quote from: P.Jones on September 07, 2014, 11:14:13 PM
I keep finding Imatch5.pts.bak files in my recycle bin, using 5.2.2

Don't remember ever seeing these using 5.1.14

Anyone else seeing this?

Oh yeah. It's become a real PITA having the Recycle bin cluttered with those files. If Mario doesn't see this discussion, I'll file it as a Feature Request to have those files permanently deleted, bypassing the Recycle bin....

Win7 x64 SP1
IMatch 5.2.2

Mario · September 08, 2014, 07:30:15 AM

IMatch creates a .bak file of the current settings file. The old backup copy is deleted with the system defaults. Which usually means it goes into the recycle bin and is deleted automatically by the system when the recycle bin is purged. This is the standard behavior for delete operations. I don't see a problem with that - especially since it allows you to go back to settings older than a day if you deserve so...

photoken · September 08, 2014, 07:42:54 AM

Quote from: Mario on September 08, 2014, 07:30:15 AM
IMatch creates a .bak file of the current settings file. The old backup copy is deleted with the system defaults. Which usually means it goes into the recycle bin and is deleted automatically by the system when the recycle bin is purged. This is the standard behavior for delete operations. I don't see a problem with that - especially since it allows you to go back to settings older than a day if you deserve so...

Well, the point is that Win7 doesn't automatically "purge" the Recycle Bin, nor would I want it to.

The thing is, I don't keep IM5 running all the time. I might open and close it a few times a day, so for me, the old backups of the IM settings file are unimportant. (I don't want to go back to older settings.) The most important contents of the Recycle Bin are actual "content" files -- documents, images, etc. -- and it's a pain to have the Recycle Bin cluttered with what I consider irrelevant, never needed files.

IM therefore needs the option of bypassing the Recycle Bin for those old settings backups, and simply deleting them.

sinus · September 08, 2014, 08:35:54 AM

a bit ot: Phew, is this a new feature?

I ask, because I have lost my imatch5.pts, ten days or so, ago? I did not discovered a bak-file, or I did not seen.
Would have helped me a lot!

Richard · September 08, 2014, 10:08:53 AM

The contents of the Recycle Bin can be sorted so that all Imatch5.pts.bak files are together. It is then easy to select all Imatch5.pts.bak files and delete them.

Mario · September 08, 2014, 10:24:01 AM

Quote from: sinus on September 08, 2014, 08:35:54 AM
a bit ot: Phew, is this a new feature?

I ask, because I have lost my imatch5.pts, ten days or so, ago? I did not discovered a bak-file, or I did not seen.
Would have helped me a lot!

I've added this backup feature partly because of your report. I thought keeping a 'last working' settings file around would be a good idea. In case something goes wrong, users can restore their last settings file (or even older ones from the recycle bin).

Ferdinand · September 08, 2014, 10:35:11 AM

I think it's a good idea.

photoken · September 08, 2014, 10:37:33 AM

Quote from: Richard on September 08, 2014, 10:08:53 AM
The contents of the Recycle Bin can be sorted so that all Imatch5.pts.bak files are together. It is then easy to select all Imatch5.pts.bak files and delete them.

That misses the point completely: I don't want IM creating extra work for me. I don't want to have to manually clean out the Recycle Bin just because some old no-longer-used backup files keep filling it up. No other program I have does that.

If anyone thinks that keeping those old files is a good idea, then have IM create a user-specified "IMbackup" directory with an option to save only a set number of those files.

Mario · September 08, 2014, 11:07:26 AM

How do you use the recycle bin?
Do you often review it's contents? I never look at it, unless I need to restore something...

I don't want to complicate this feature too much. Either we delete the previous file into the recycle bin, or forever. I'll let the users decide. Please vote here. If I get no voted, I keep it as it is.

photoken · September 08, 2014, 11:39:07 AM

Quote from: Mario on September 08, 2014, 11:07:26 AM
How do you use the recycle bin?
Do you often review it's contents? I never look at it, unless I need to restore something...

I use the RB as a temporary storage area in case I delete important content documents from within an application without realizing I've done that. Whenever I'm using Windows Explorer to manage files, I just permanently delete 'em, bypassing the RB. I can't avoid not looking at it because it's icon is right there on my Desktop.

I want to emphasize this again: I do not keep IM running all the time. I'll open and close it multiple times a day. Because of this new, unwanted behavior by IM, I see that the RB has something in it so I'm forced to check whether there's something valuable in there or just the old IM backup files.

Quote from: Mario on September 08, 2014, 11:07:26 AM
I don't want to complicate this feature too much. Either we delete the previous file into the recycle bin, or forever. I'll let the users decide. Please vote here. If I get no voted, I keep it as it is.

Once you implement an automatic multiple-backup feature for IM settings files, you cannot avoid "complicating" that feature. Out of respect for the IM users (and their unique ways of using the program) it's only right to let them choose where and how many copies of the backup files to keep. For example, the KeePass password storage program provides a plug-in to backup copies of its database, and the user can configure the location for the backup copies and how many copies to keep. By the way, that program is free.

I vote against the current behavior -- just kill those unused old backup copies and don't make more work for me.

sinus · September 08, 2014, 12:05:20 PM

Quote from: Mario on September 08, 2014, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: sinus on September 08, 2014, 08:35:54 AM
a bit ot: Phew, is this a new feature?

I ask, because I have lost my imatch5.pts, ten days or so, ago? I did not discovered a bak-file, or I did not seen.
Would have helped me a lot!

I've added this backup feature partly because of your report. I thought keeping a 'last working' settings file around would be a good idea. In case something goes wrong, users can restore their last settings file (or even older ones from the recycle bin).

I think, this is a great idea! Would helped me a lot, and I am sure, it will help other users also ... one day.
Thanks for this!

Ferdinand · September 08, 2014, 12:17:23 PM

I vote for it as it is. I've had occasional issues with corrupt pts files and I like the idea of a series of automatic backups. It means that I can go back until I find one that works.

I find that many programs dump copious amounts of files and folders into the temp folder and/or recycle bin. If you don't like it then clean them out frequently. I don't think that you can use it as a backup folder that you manage. It's there as a last ditch option. If you want a real backup then run regular incremental backups.

sinus · September 08, 2014, 12:17:24 PM

Quote from: photoken on September 08, 2014, 10:37:33 AM
No other program I have does that.

I am sure, we would find other programs, what does this too, so you have simply not other programs, what does this.
But more important: a lot of programs does cluttering my harddisk with temp and tmp or other called files, in different places.
THIS means for me producing extra work. I would be happy, if they would store the temporary files into the bin.
I have tousends of files, cluttering my space and I am not sure, can I delete them or not.

But if a file is in the bin, I know, I could delete it, if I want (mostly I do the same like you, and I delete files in the bin not daily, only oce a week or so.

So, let's the user choose, that is a good, democratic thing

P.Jones · September 08, 2014, 01:23:11 PM

I do daily backups so I vote delete forever.

I opened and closed IM about 12 times yesterday generally just checking various things throughout the day and not making any changes.

I don't need 12 backups each containing the same thing every day.

cytochrome · September 08, 2014, 01:40:22 PM

In the last days I opened IM several times and made one backup (P&G).

I have only one Imatch5.pts.bak file, it is in C:\ProgramData\photools.com\IMatch5\config and only 3500 Ko so if several accumulate in the bin it is negligible.

I vote to keep it as is, and by the way I find it an excellent idea to have a backup of this file.

Francis

Ger · September 08, 2014, 01:52:26 PM

Vote: keep as is.

This is just another small feature IMatch silently supporting the user in case of an issue. Once every week/month/year going to the recycle bin, sorting on file name and deleting the pts files is a very small price to pay for that.

Ger

Richard · September 08, 2014, 02:10:41 PM

I vote to keep .bak files as is and will raise it. If it can be done I would like the log files sent to the Recycle Bin when they are removed from Temp.

Mario · September 08, 2014, 03:20:27 PM

IMatch keeps the last three log files in the TEMP folder. And since they can become real huge often, I decided to not put them into the recycle bin.

DigPeter · September 08, 2014, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: Ferdinand on September 08, 2014, 10:35:11 AM
I think it's a good idea.

+1

jch2103 · September 08, 2014, 06:07:31 PM

Quote from: Ferdinand on September 08, 2014, 12:17:23 PM
I vote for it as it is. I've had occasional issues with corrupt pts files and I like the idea of a series of automatic backups. It means that I can go back until I find one that works.

I find that many programs dump copious amounts of files and folders into the temp folder and/or recycle bin. If you don't like it then clean them out frequently. I don't think that you can use it as a backup folder that you manage. It's there as a last ditch option. If you want a real backup then run regular incremental backups.

+1

Mario · September 08, 2014, 06:30:27 PM

QuoteI've had occasional issues with corrupt pts files

I've never seen a damaged PTS file here myself, and I treat IMatch much harder than it's handled in normal use. Do you recall when these problems happened? Crash? Windows shut-down?

photoken · September 08, 2014, 06:54:48 PM

Quote from: Ferdinand on September 08, 2014, 12:17:23 PM
I find that many programs dump copious amounts of files and folders into the temp folder and/or recycle bin. If you don't like it then clean them out frequently. I don't think that you can use it as a backup folder that you manage. It's there as a last ditch option. If you want a real backup then run regular incremental backups.

(Emphasis added)
Then why have IM use the Recycle Bin as its backup folder? No other program I have dumps "copious amounts of files" into the Recycle Bin. The Temp folder, yes, but not the RB, and that's as it should be -- the RB is not a backup folder.

To put this another way, I've been using personal computers for over 20 years and I've never been forced to constantly clean up the housekeeping files left over by applications until IM5.2.2 was released.

jch2103 · September 08, 2014, 07:22:43 PM

Just curious - I don't see any copies of imatch.pts.bak or imatch.pts in my Recycle Bin, as I noted above. (I haven't cleaned out my Recycle Bin in a very long time so I'd have thought they might be present.) Is there a reason different users are having different experiences with this?

Regarding corrupt .pts, I did have a problem way, way back with one of the early beta versions. Deleting the .pts file allowed me to open a test database. But that was many, many generations of IMatch ago; no issues since.

Mario · September 08, 2014, 07:34:47 PM

The automatic backup of the settings database feature has been added in 5.2.2. If you run an older version of IMatch, you won't have these files.

jch2103 · September 08, 2014, 08:17:41 PM

I've been using 5.2.2 since the day it was released, and opened and closed iMatch multiple times each day.

sinus · September 08, 2014, 08:26:56 PM

Quote from: jch2103 on September 08, 2014, 07:22:43 PM
Just curious - I don't see any copies of imatch.pts.bak or imatch.pts in my Recycle Bin, as I noted above. (I haven't cleaned out my Recycle Bin in a very long time so I'd have thought they might be present.) Is there a reason different users are having different experiences with this?

You have not enabled the rb, to delete immediately (preferences of the recycle bin)?

jch2103 · September 08, 2014, 08:45:15 PM

Quote from: sinus on September 08, 2014, 08:26:56 PM
You have not enabled the rb, to delete immediately (preferences of the recycle bin)?

No.

Erik · September 08, 2014, 09:39:07 PM

I like the idea that Mario implemented.

I don't really use the Recycle Bin unless I screw up and need to restore something. Half the time, I let it get too big (my problem).

I don't really understand the controversy. I assume the pts files are reasonably sized. My own computers recycle bin is often full of silly files from software that I often haven't put there. It's never worried me. My only wish was that Windows would actually put some type of timeline so that files that are so old would just automatically be removed from the recycle bin (kind of like my email box).

photoken · September 08, 2014, 11:41:44 PM

Quote from: Erik on September 08, 2014, 09:39:07 PM
I don't really understand the controversy.

Because IM is now causing the Recycle Bin to display a notification that it contains files that require my attention.

It sounds like those old settings backup files are rarely, if ever, used by anyone.

This behavior of IM5.2.2 raises two questions for Mario:

What is the benefit of using the Recycle Bin to hold those old housekeeping files, as opposed to putting them in the Temp directory?
If the location of those old files can't be easily changed, can we at least have a simple setting in the IM preferences to "Bypass using the Recycle Bin for deleting old backup files".

lenmerkel · September 09, 2014, 06:53:09 AM

IMHO, the Windows Recycle Bin is a pretty poor excuse for a useful backup mechanism. However, I can see that if someone accidentally deletes a file between regular backups, it's one way of getting that file back.

Personally, I don't let the Recycle Bin bother or even distract me. I can't remember the last time I even opened it. In fact, I don't even have it displayed on the desktop or as a node in Windows Explorer. I run CCleaner once in a while to clean up trash (which incidentally includes the Recycle Bin). Deleting old unnecessary System Restore Points (with CCleaner) is way more fruitful in getting back disk space.

hro · September 09, 2014, 09:02:43 AM

This thread is soooo boring.
Why can't you just go on and enjoy the many great features of IMatch. So many more exciting things to discuss.

Ferdinand · September 09, 2014, 09:12:40 AM

Quote from: Mario on September 08, 2014, 06:30:27 PM
QuoteI've had occasional issues with corrupt pts files

I've never seen a damaged PTS file here myself, and I treat IMatch much harder than it's handled in normal use. Do you recall when these problems happened? Crash? Windows shut-down?

Like others, it was a long time ago much earlier in the beta. It happened a couple of times and I did send you the pts files when it happened.

What happened was that on one occasion I closed down IMatch without any issues, and the next time I went to open it I couldn't. Only when I deleted/renamed the pts file could I start IMatch.

I've been a bit wary ever since. Most of the preferences are easy enough to recreate, but the file relations are complex. Hence my low-priority feature request to be able to export and import them. I do incremental backups but these things only ever happen when you're between backups.