On using acronyms like YMMV on a multilingual board such as this one

[ColinIM]

This is a response (a light-hearted response I hope) from me to a note from Richard in another thread about the use of acronyms such as "YMMV" on a discussion board like this one, on which the members are speakers of many other languages, not just speakers of English.

That other thread had been started by Markus ('sinus') from Switzerland, and in my reply to Markus I had used the acronym "YMMV", but I had not (on this occasion) followed the 'polite acronym-use' protocol of preceding the acronym with its 'expanded', full-text version, namely "Your Mileage May Vary".

Richard replied in turn - and on topic - to my post in that thread, and then he added this ...

(....) I hate to see abbreviations like: "YMMV". If they (our non-native-English speakers) have the Oxford dictionaries they can find what it means but it does not appear in my Webster.

... and because I wanted to muse at length and ironically in broad agreement to Richard's point, I switched my long-winded response to here.  Please ignore this or add your own thoughts as you wish

@Richard ...

Hi Richard,

You said ...

(....) I hate to see abbreviations like: "YMMV". If they (our non-native-English speakers) have the Oxford dictionaries they can find what it means but it does not appear in my Webster.

Darn it, I agree with you 100%!  OK, perhaps 98% 

It's ironically frustrating (for me) that it should be me who receives a gentle prod about using acronyms on a Forum!!!!!!!!!!!

I've lost count of the times when I've refrained from offering my own nudges to others (rarely on this Forum, but many times on some others) about exactly this 'sin' of breaking the 'ideal acronym protocol' when first using an acronym!  To put it another way, I've quelled my (mild) irritation countless times after seeing the writer of a post (or a reply to a post) use a new acronym without doing the 'polite' thing of prefixing the acronym (just once, immediately prior to its first use) with the acronym's expanded, full-text version!

(Of course this can be difficult to judge.  On this Forum, very few of us would wish that every first use of the term "GPS" should appear as ... Global Positioning System (GPS) ..., but I think many of us would prefer to be helped in our comprehension of (say) a rarer discussion on lenses and focussing if the acronym "CoC" was written, the first time, as ... Circle of Confusion (CoC) ... )

You can be sure that, as a speaker myself of just one single language (I welcome the label of 'monoglot'), I am routinely impressed on forums (fora) like this one, and on the DxO Forum, which has a similar mixed-language membership, each time we native English speakers enjoy constructive dialogue with non-native English speakers who are writing courageously as aspiring polyglots.  Or as is more often the case, our fellow Forum contributors are supremely fluent, actual polyglots!

Yes, it's true that in some of my recent posts, including the post mentioned above, I'll allow myself to use "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary)(which is also a rather abstracted metaphor!), or I may use "IMO" or "IMHO" (In My (Humble) Opinion) without prefixing them with their fully-expanded, non-acronym version.  I feel these are acceptable breaches of our 'ideal acronym protocol' because - of all the acronyms that have sprung out of these past few decades of bulletin boards, internet forums and mobile devices - it's fair to presume that the triplet of YMMV, IMO & IMHO are by now, almost universally understood.  Just like "LED"!  Surely this is so?

And if I may give just one more soothing rub to my ever-so-slightly bruised ego (just kidding!  )  you're welcome Richard to scan my posts on this and on other forums to which I've contributed (search if you like for my more common Forum Username 'KolinP'), and I think you'll find that I'm among the few contributors who chooses (usually) to adhere to that 'ideal acronym protocol whenever I use a potentially cryptic acronym. (Taking account of the Forum context and its audience, naturally).

I think we're very much on the same side!

Pax (peace), and best wishes,

Colin P.

[Richard]

Some terms, like "IMO" or "IMHO" or "LR", are used so often I tend to think that ALL forum members know their meanings. But am I correct in making that assumption? If I am not correct it means that someone is left with less than complete understanding. I am not a good typist but I can type "In My Opinion" or "Lightroom" without too much trouble. I suspect that most folks know that LED is the past participle of lead.  On the other hand I will not try to list all the "F" words that might be used in RTFM. 

[Mario]

I just trust in the intelligence of users. If a fellow community member does not understand a term or acronym, he/she should just ask what  YKWIM means...

[Ferdinand]

IIRC, acronyms are a part of life on the internet IMHO, FWIW.  Google search is your friend, unless you're paranoid about Google watching you on behalf of the NSA.

[lenmerkel]

Reminds me of a time, too many years ago, when I was a young(!) software developer in London, where I grew up. We were in a bar (of course), with several IBM engineers (also of course). In the early hours of the morning (it was that kind of bar), we decided to have a competition to come up with the best expansion of the acronym IBM.

(Please: No law suits from that venerable and respected company.)

Here's what was suggested, all by IBM-ers:

• It's Broke, Mate! (often heard from engineers when asked 'what's wrong with it?')
• It'll Be Monday (often heard from engineers when asked 'can you fix it?')
• I've Been Moved (occupational hazard of working for IBM in those days)
• International Brotherhood of Magicians (my personal favorite)
• Involuntary B*w*l Movement (from the most senior IBMer present)

[sinus]

My native language is in fact Swiss-German, what is a language, what even a German not understand, or at least surely not fully.
On the other hand I understand and can speach, I would say, very good German, because our Newspapers, partly in the scool, our books and so are in "high German".

So, against the Germans, we have the advantage, that we can understand the "normal German", but they cannot understand us or they can only understand us partly or guesss, what we say (except they are longer in Switzerland).

The same is true for a Swiss like me, I have troubles to understand a language in German, when the dialect is very hard to understand, say from bavarian or some dialects in aereas abroad.

But I think, this "dialects" has every language, I have read, that even in London there are some people, called cockneys, what even an English man does not understand fully.

Well, and the Americans or people from Australia have again other "dialects".

For me it is very difficult, even to understand English, but to be honest, if I read abreviations like IMHO I must look up all the time somewhere in the net (like Ferdinand wrote).

Abbreviations like YMMV are not understandable for me without look up. Also LED, this means for me LED (the light source, what is in the modern televisions and cars and so on).

So I am really (for example now I am searching the word for the German word "froh" ... grrr, how was it ... ahhh, maybe glad) glad, if there is an abbreviation, if there are also the real words, at least once.

But of course, I think, it is at least my part to understand, part of the non-native-English-speaking-people to look up ... we have to live with this.

I thought several times, for example Colin, Richard and others does write really - for my ears - very sophisticated, this is fascinating, but also difficult ... but at the end I enjoy it very much. I envy you, I would like to speak and write so "fine-tuned" like you, folks ... there are much more people out there with English-native-ground then Germans, not to speak from those roughly 8 Millions Swiss-people

Have a nice evening!
Markus

[lenmerkel]

Also LED, this means for me LED (the light source, what is in the modern televisions and cars and so on).

Markus, I was born and raised in London (actually the 'cockney' part you refer to). My wife of 33 years is Canadian (I have visited Canada many times). I have lived in California for the past 18 years. I worked for a Swedish company for nearly 20 years, where English was the official business language. I think I have been around many, many people using different 'flavors' of English.

So, please excuse my ignorance. What on earth does LED stand for if not Light Emitting Diode? I don't have a clue either. 

BTW (By The Way): Your English is 1000% better than my schoolboy German or French could ever be.

[herman]

What on earth does LED stand for

Zeppelin?
Sorry, could not resist 

[Menace]

What on earth does LED stand for

Zeppelin?
Sorry, could not resist 

  Very Good one.

[Erik]

I only know LED as Light Emitting Diode, but I've always thought of acronyms like LED or GPS or even AM/PM etc as less important to spell out since many people don't really know how to spell them out, but they do understand what they are. 

On the other hand, I'm a native English speaker who avoids text messaging, twitter, etc, and I struggle with many of the acronyms.  I often have Google them, even ones that I've had to google before.  YMMV is one of those.  When I find the translation, I often feel an oh duh moment, but at the same time I can never remember it.

Why am I posting?  Mostly to point out that many native English speakers can still struggle with some acronyms.  Google does help, but it is nice when people spell it out sometimes, too.  It makes me feel a little less stupid.

[lenmerkel]

Zeppelin?

Now I'm dazed and confused. 

[sinus]

Zeppelin?

Now I'm dazed and confused. 

Led Zeppelin is/was a quite well-known music (pop-rock) group, MAYBE in the years 1970...

[Menace]

I guess, if someone is dazed and confused, he probably well known Ledzep. :rambleon:   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EieHafkHbU

[ColinIM]

Zeppelin?

Now I'm dazed and confused. 

Ha!! Excellent! I didn't spot this until Menace gave us the YouTube clue 

I once worked with a chap who had both of his arms covered entirely by jazzy, Led Zeppelin themed tattoos!
He had a pony-tail too!  And two University degrees ...

I was more into Mary Hopkin and Joan Baez in those days!

[ColinIM]

Reminds me of a time, too many years ago (....)

It's Broke, Mate! (often heard from engineers when asked 'what's wrong with it?')
(....)
(....)

That brings back some memories!

We'd joke "It's Being Mended".

[lenmerkel]

I guess, if someone is dazed and confused, he probably well known Ledzep. :rambleon:   

Yep, saw them live 3 times in the UK, from '68 through the mid '70s. One of the UK's best exports - ever!

[Menace]

Yep, saw them live 3 times in the UK, from '68 through the mid '70s. One of the UK's best exports - ever!

This give me pure envy (is this correct?). In my youth (Born 67) Led Zep was my absolute favorite band (listen Bootlegs and live-LP every night; One night I slept above a Pub, which play all night songs from LedZep. I just recognize this most songs because of bass and Bonzo's legendary drumming). But I never saw them live. Today I'm more in funk and fusion (Dennis Chambers).

[whitefern]

Just finished reading this enjoyable thread! Had a few giggles. And I enjoy reading what others write when English isn't their first language. I find it easy enough to understand and quite charming.

[sinus]

Just finished reading this enjoyable thread! Had a few giggles. And I enjoy reading what others write when English isn't their first language. I find it easy enough to understand and quite charming.

Thanks, that is nice of you! If you want have more giggles, I am trying: 

Hope, this is not 2L8 4Y, but AFAIK, it does not matter really. So B2K, though not really B2T. I did not C&P here, but took the abbreviations from

"http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Abk%C3%BCrzungen_%28Netzjargon%29"; this JFYI.

And also JTLYK, that this post is of course not very seriously, simply, at EOBD, a bit JK.

And, JFTR, I hope, you can a bit LO, or even LOFL, and PLS, this if only my POV and of course also a bit OT.
TBH, I hope, you are not saying loud Dafuq, this would not my intention, I hope more, you can a little bit smile.

YMMV, but usually I do not like such posts like this here, but for once this abbreviations MMD.

XOXO, THX for listening, this was hopefully not TMI, if so, PLS forget this sentences, have a good WE and, if it was TL and you DR, take only this with you:

SRY, but IRL I do speak a bit more clear, but SCNR.

I you do not like this, NVM, and HAND and THX for your patience and indulgence! YOLO - and a sentence in German for our German-speaking friends for thinking about; and for our friends with another native mother-tongue I can say, GIYF: "Das Leben ist eines der schönsten!" 

[Ferdinand]

 

[Richard]

Congratulations Markus, You have the crown for the post with the most gibberish I have ever seen. It does a fine job of showing what many readers have to put up with when normal words with real meanings are not used.

[sinus]

Thanks, Richard,

for once I am glad to receive this crown! 

And I take too all the icons from Ferdinand! 

[lnh]

How about starting a decoder list for commonly used and useful acronyms which are relevant to IMatch users. Maybe should become a FAQ.

To get it started:

-------------------------------------------
Directly IMatch Relevant:
BBD = Built By Design?
ECP = ExifTool Command Processor

Outside IMatch but still useful:
DOP = DxO Optics Pro and/or their XMPish format for sidecar files (3rd party software)
FPV = Fast Picture Viewer (3rd party software)
-------------------------------------------

Please add your favorites to this list.

[DigPeter]

Congratulations Markus, You have the crown for the post with the most gibberish I have ever seen. It does a fine job of showing what many readers have to put up with when normal words with real meanings are not used.

https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=2102.msg22809#msg22809 runs it very close 2nd  - sorry Joerg

[Richard]

How about starting a decoder list for commonly used and useful acronyms which are relevant to IMatch users. Maybe should become a FAQ.

To get it started:

-------------------------------------------
Directly IMatch Relevant:
BBD = Built By Design?
ECP = ExifTool Command Processor

Outside IMatch but still useful:
DOP = DxO Optics Pro and/or their XMPish format for sidecar files (3rd party software)
FPV = Fast Picture Viewer (3rd party software)
-------------------------------------------

Please add your favorites to this list.

I proposed a "Glossary of Terms" when members were discussing "Face Recognition" and "Face Detection". Mario gave the following suggestion.

Most users don't make a difference. I do, albeit only for technical reasons. IMatch has face detection, but no face recognition 

A post in the FAQ... board would be a good place. A locked post, so we don't get discussions.
I think the table feature available in posts would give a nice layout across all devices.

Code:

GPS	Explanation for GPS
Face Detection	Explanation for face detection

Gives us a nice table:

GPS	Explanation for GPS
Face Detection	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Pellentesque adipiscing. Phasellus mattis auctor diam. Pellentesque quis lorem eget arcu dapibus semper. Proin sollicitudin mattis diam. Suspendisse semper rutrum quam. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Pellentesque adipiscing. Phasellus mattis auctor diam. Pellentesque quis lorem eget arcu dapibus semper.
Face Recognition	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Pellentesque adipiscing. Phasellus mattis auctor diam. Pellentesque quis lorem eget arcu dapibus semper. Proin sollicitudin mattis diam. Suspendisse semper rutrum quam.

I experimented but since I know nothing about HTML (HyperText Markup Language?) I got nowhere. Maybe someone who understands HTML would get the FAQ started.

[Richard]

Code Select Expand

Code: [Select][table]

[tr]
[td][b]GPS[/b][/td]
[td]Explanation for GPS[/td]
[/tr]

[tr]
[td][b]Face Detection [/b][/td]
[td]Explanation for face detection[/td]
[/tr]

[/table]

When I copied Mario's code above into the prior post, it made the table. Go figure.

[lenmerkel]

Thanks, that is nice of you! If you want have more giggles, I am trying: 

Brilliant! / Ausgezeichnet! / Niesamowite!

(There are no icons available that describe how much your post made me laugh!)

[Mario]

BBD => Behavior by Design.

[cytochrome]

Not surprisingly since I am a lazy frog and an old one with this (married much longer than Lenmerkel -and to the same wife, get's me sympathy??-) when I come across YMMV and the like I move swiftly over the obstacle.

And never feel I miss a lot since I get a meaning, at least I fathom a meaning and am happy. Of course I know what a gps, a led, etc are, but THWR

Francis