Categorizing of DNG file - not carried from original file.

[Aubrey]

I have a firework display (The original files go in folder 1411) and have placed them in a category and further detailed some as "Best" and put them in a child category. i.e.:
(Category) Fireworks 2014
(Child category)     ---Best

I have brought some of the "Best" into Lightroom to work on these on exporting the DNG the DNG goes into the 1411 folder (and becomes master over the NEF), but does not appear in category alongside the NEF. The DNG inherits the rating from the NEF file (1 or 2 stars), but does not inherit the category location.

Is it possible for the new file to also inherit the category information?

Thanks,
Aubrey.

[Mario]

Propagation is performed according to your file version rules.

From what I could understand from your posting, you create *new* masters outside of IMatch (in DNG format) and add them to the database. Did you refresh the relations afterwards on that folder via <F4>,<R>?

How is your file relation rule defined? Which categories do you propagate?

[Aubrey]

I did not perform a F4, R after new files were created. I suspect this is the issue.

If issue still remains, I'll continue the thread.

Thanks,
Aubrey.

[Aubrey]

Hmm, does not appear to be working.
Some screen dumps to explain...
NEF_Category.jpg
This shows file AOC_D300_141107_33641.NEF has been assigned to category "checkWorkflow"

DNG_Category.jpg
File AOC_D300_141107_33641.dng is not assigned to category "checkWorkflow".
This file has come back from LR5 and we can see it is a master. F4,R was applied after highlighting both NEF and DNG files. It was also applied on the folder "1411 Nov"

File_relations.jpg, shows how the propagation is setup; it appears that "categories" should be propagated.

I must be doing something wrong...

Thanks,
Aubrey.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[sinus]

Try to enable (check) the
Categories to propagate (in the bottom of your attachement)

@ALL

category also.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

As sinus pointed out, you apparently (from the screen shot) did not enable the categories which to propagate (e.g. @All). Is this the case?

[Aubrey]

Sinus, Mario, thank for your input.

I now understand what is happening...
In the versioning, DNG is Master and NEF is Slave

Therefore one cannot expect that the Slave will propagate its settings to the Master.

If I make a change on the DNG then it appears in the NEF. For example if I change categories (even without enabling @ALL). This makes sense.

By the way, I did try enabling @ALL to try and get the NEF to propagate to the DNG.

I can't see a workaround for this, except by possibly keeping track of files using flags

Would it make sense for a new "Master" i.e., a file that comes back to IMatch as a Master to initially take all the properties of the Slave? My argument in that case is, which Slave? There might be NEF and jpg files with different category parameters...

I wonder how other users who are using the IMatch -> LR5 (processing) ->  IMatch (archive) workflow dealt with the issue.

Thanks,
Aubrey.

[Mario]

IMatch always propagates from the master to its versions.
If the NEF is the master, all changes you do to it in IMatch will be mirrored in the DNG version (depending on how you configure the relation).

I'm not sure that I understand your problem from the description in your last post.

[Ferdinand]

I wonder how other users who are using the IMatch -> LR5 (processing) ->  IMatch (archive) workflow dealt with the issue.

Well I don't have a problem.  I have the RAW as master and output either JPG and/or TIFF from LR and propagate from the RAW to the output file without any problems.

As Mario said, it's not clear which is the input file for LR and which is the output file and how your file relations are setup.

[sinus]

I wonder how other users who are using the IMatch -> LR5 (processing) ->  IMatch (archive) workflow dealt with the issue.

Well I don't have a problem.  I have the RAW as master and output either JPG and/or TIFF from LR and propagate from the RAW to the output file without any problems.

As Mario said, it's not clear which is the input file for LR and which is the output file and how your file relations are setup.

I do it exactly like Ferdinand describes. The RAW as master, (mostly) jpg or tif as versions. Propagate in IMatch, that's it.

[Aubrey]

Sinus, Mario,
To clarify my workflow
I send NEF to LR5 when processing is completed I export DNG to IMatch (Sinus I think you export either tif or jpg).
I have defined my DNG as master (again Sinus you define NEF as master). The reason I assign DNG as master is that this is the "edited image", and I like to see this at the top of my versions.

I do not process all my NEFs only the particularly worthwhile images, but I keep "acceptable images; sometimes after looking at images months later one likes something not considered worthwhile on first pass.

So as DNG is master one can see why properties of NEF are not propagated to DNG.

A workaround would be to change the master to NEF, propagate "properties" to DNG  and then reset DNG to master.

This should be a reasonably simple script I would think  ?
I'm attaching  a screen of my relationship definitions.

Aubrey.




[attachment deleted by admin]

[Ferdinand]

The reason I assign DNG as master is that this is the "edited image", and I like to see this at the top of my versions.

There is a longstanding feature request that would solve your problem, and if you and others support it then it may happen sooner.

Of the top of my head, I can't see why your workflow wouldn't work, so long as you enter the information in the DNG and propagate to the NEF.  Of course what complicates this is that you don't develop every NEF, so the question is how to deal with such cases. 

If you enter the information into the NEF, as I gather you are, then you are going to have problems, since you can't easily reverse propagate from version to master.  I have written a script that reverse propagates ratings and labels from a version to the master and other versions.  One option would be to take this script and adapt it to reverse propagate whatever it is you want copied.

Personally, I think you're trying to create a complex workflow just to see the edited files on your version stacks.  If it were me I'd stick to the standard approach and wait for the feature request (which I admit could be quite a while).

[sinus]

I send NEF to LR5 when processing is completed I export DNG to IMatch (Sinus I think you export either tif or jpg).

Aubrey, yes, you are correct, I do so, like Ferdinand.

I have defined my DNG as master (again Sinus you define NEF as master). The reason I assign DNG as master is that this is the "edited image", and I like to see this at the top of my versions.

Yes, correct. I understand, why you assign DNG as master.
I understand you fully, that you want see the edited file on top of the versions. You could use (maybe) use Nef as the master and the DNG as version and set the DNG as proxy.
But this gives other (from my point of view) troubles, so I understand you.
BTW: exactly that is the reason, why I made a feature request some month ago:
https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=1614.msg19094#msg19094

I do not process all my NEFs only the particularly worthwhile images, but I keep "acceptable images; sometimes after looking at images months later one likes something not considered worthwhile on first pass.

Also here I do the same. If I take 100 images, I edit and deliver to my clients, say 20, these files I tag in IMatch as edited, with master/versions. For this I use categories, Labels and collections.

The not used images I am tagging also of course.
At the moment I do create then two stacks for these images.
The 20 used images are in a stack, best image on top.

And the 80 not used images are in a stack.

So I have a "used stack" and a "not used stack", neatly sorted side by side.

I will again think about this (one single stack would be an alternative), but it seems to work well and is good useable.

1 year or longer ago I thougth about using DNG as well. DNG or sidecars.
Finally I decided against DNG and for sidecars.
I think, both ways has advantages and disadvantages.

Phew, Ferdinand was quicker - once again!  his post ist just before this here.

[Carlo Didier]

The reason I assign DNG as master is that this is the "edited image", and I like to see this at the top of my versions.

That's why I've gone DNG only for raw files. Whether I batch convert 20% of my raw files to DNG or 100% doesn't really make a difference in my workflow and I don't keep the "original" raws anyway, so I'm actually even saving a bit of disk space.