How to popagate categories and attributes in iMatch 5?

[tomdriver]

I like to import NEF files from my camera directly to iMatch 5.  There I cull them, assign categories, and add attributes.  Then I want to convert some of them to JPEG.  I can create the JPG versions all right, but the categories and attributes do nor carry over.  I asked Mario about this and he tried to help, but I still can't make it work.  He told me to go to Edit--File Relations and set the versioning rules, which I have done.  I created a new Relation Definition called "My Nikon NEF."  Here are its settings:
Relation Definitions:  My Nikon NEF is checked.
What to propagate:  Categories, Annotations, Attributes are checked.
Use this version:  As Visual, For Conversion, & For Email are checked.
Categories to propagate:  @All is selected with + mark.
Using the Batch Processor, the conversions are made without error in a ]email subfolder.  But there are no categories or attributes with the JPEG versions.
Hours and hours of experimenting brought me this far and no further.  What now?

[Mario]

You produce versions via the Batch processor?
Do you create these files in a folder indexed in your IMatch database?
Is this folder covered by your file version rule (does IMatch find the versions)? If this is the case, you should see version icons on the files produced by the batch processor...

[Aubrey]

Which files do you want as Master, the NEF or the JPG?
If NEF then do you have "NEF Versioning" (this is a defult which should work for your needs) ticked in Preferences/file relations? This default should make the NEF the Master. You should then see an orange rectangle to the right of the star ratings, the jpgs should then have a light blue rectangle.

Aubrey.

[tomdriver]

Yes, I produce versions via the Batch processor.
Yes, I create these files in a folder indexed in my IMatch database.
I do not see any version icons on files produced by the batch processor.  The files are produced in an \email folder that the Batch processor itself generated.

[tomdriver]

Which files do you want as Master, the NEF or the JPG?
If NEF then do you have "NEF Versioning" (this is a defult which should work for your needs) ticked in Preferences/file relations? This default should make the NEF the Master. You should then see an orange rectangle to the right of the star ratings, the jpgs should then have a light blue rectangle.

Aubrey.

I want the NEF as Master.
I do have the default "NEF Versioning" in Preferences/file relations.
I don't see any orange or blue rectangles with any of the files.

[Mario]

If you don't see version icons, IMatch has not found your new versions.
Are you sure the 'email' sub-folders you create in the batch processor are covered by your version rule (the folder is considered for the search for versions)?

Example:

I have RAW files in a folder named:

c:\images
|- ORIGINAL


and the Batch Processor generates JPEG files from the RAW files into a folder named 'web' below that. After the batch processor has finished, it looks

c:\images
|- ORIGINAL
   |- web


The categories, collections etc. assigned to the RAW files will be propagated to the new versions in the 'web' folder automatically. This is what you are trying to achieve, right?

Just make sure that your file version rule includes the sub-folders (1 level) of the folder containing the masters. IMatch does the rest. You can show us a screen shot of your File Relation settings to give us some hard data to work with.

As for metadata, things are a bit more complicated. The Batch Processor is usually used to create files which are used outside of IMatch, e.g. for files being uploaded to a web site, sent via email, used for printing etc. For these purposes, the Batch Processor offers features which allow you to control very precisely which metadata is written. You can copy only copyright information or only XMP, leave out GPS or face data etc. This may clash with metadata propagation from the master, so you need to be extra careful and know what you want if you mix metadata propagation with the controls in the batch processor.

[Mario]

I don't see any orange or blue rectangles with any of the files.

Show us:

1. A screen shot of your file relation settings (<Alt>+<PrintScreen>, save to disk as JPEG and attach).
2. A screen shot of your folder hierarchy you use from the IMatch Media & Folders view.

[tomdriver]

I've attached 4 screen shots with explanatory titles.  You should see that the original (NEF) files have assigned categories, but the JPG versions in the email folder do not.  The two File Relations panels show the settings used.  I hope  you can spot the problem.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Aubrey]

I suppose that you have highlighted files and used F4,P to propagate the changes?
Aubrey

[tomdriver]

F4,P does nothing.

[Mario]

You must refresh the relations while the folder with the master files is selected, not while "email" is selected.
Do you have the option to include the output folder in the database enabled in the Batch Processor?
I just tried it again and it immediately worked.

[Ferdinand]

Propagation won't work if IMatch doesn't recognise master files as masters and version files as versions.  In your screengrabs the icons that would show this are missing.  I don't think that this is just because they are hidden by your layout settings, because the master files should also have a little icon on the thumbs showing the number of versions and that's missing too

As Mario said, you need to select the masters and refresh file relations.  If you want this to happen automatically when you add new files, then under preferences > background processing there are options that should assist this.

[tomdriver]

Well!  Eureka!  The trick was done by Commands > Relations > Refresh relations.  Why was this not mentioned before, I wonder.
I still don't see icons or numbers indicating versioning, but the categories and attributes were propagated, and that's what I most wanted.  Thanks.

[Ferdinand]

In the help file, under "file relation" select the "configuring file relations" page.  Scroll to the bottom and under the heading "color" you'll see the little orange and blue icons.  You don't see these after refreshing relations?

Under the "versions" page (also under "File Relations" in the help file), the first image you see as you scroll down will also show these and will also show the version stack counter that sits on the thumbs.  You don't see this either?

[Mario]

Well!  Eureka!  The trick was done by Commands > Relations > Refresh relations.  Why was this not mentioned before, I wonder.

Was mentioned. <F4>,<R> does just that: Refresh relations.

You don't see relation icons (or any icons al all) because you use a file window layout which does not show icons. Switch to the 'Default' file window layout to see collection icons, rating bar, and relation and stack icons.

[tomdriver]

Many thanks.  I'm happy now.

[Ferdinand]

I wasn't aware that you could hide those icons.  Another thing learnt.

Is it not the case that you can have file relations refreshed and propagation occur automatically for new images using the options I mentioned?

[Mario]

Check out the sample layouts provided. Some of them use no icons (e.g. the thumbs only layout).
Should be the case, yes. But it all depends on the settings, where the files are created etc. IMatch automatically runs master/versions checks and updates when it rescan a folder.