Ranking in "@Keyword"

[emef]

Hello everyone, I have a problem with the keywords contained in "@keywords."
I understand that this category only reflects the keywords contained (introduced) by me in my photos (xmp). So I try to arrange, I grouped under three main branches: Who; where; What.
But every time I create, say, a new name under "Who", if I well up on as I expect, it also creates me more the same name outside the three main categories.
So we come to something like:
"- Who
- ---- / Robert
           / Jacques

- Where
-------- / Paris

--what
-------- / party

Jacques
Paris
Robert "
If I move photos "Robert" to "Who / Robert", they disappear (at first) to "Robert". But when "IM5" reads the files, it recreates the keywords that are outside of the categories where I want to assign, which splits keywords (each with the same photos).
I hope I was clear.

Herewith, an image with "Bos Taurus", located both at the root of rank and under "02_quoi / Animalia / Bos Taurus".

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[Mario]

Sounds like you have created a problem by how you make IMatch flatten your hierarchical keywords, how your thesaurus is set up etc.

So I try to arrange, I grouped under three main branches: Who; where; What.

How did you to that? Did you setup a thesaurus and then introduced the WHO, WHERE, WHAT as group levels?

If I move photos "Robert" to "Who / Robert", they disappear (at first) to "Robert".

How do you "move" files from one keyword to another? Do you use the Keyword Panel to work with your keywords? Or do you drag files around in the Category View, in the @Keywords hierarchy?

Things to check:

+ Do you use group levels for keywords?
+ How did you set them up in your thesaurus?
+ Do you write hierarchical keywords or do you make IMatch flatten them? If so, how?
+ What are your keyword options under Edit > Preferences > Metadata?

How do the XMP, IPTC and hierarchical keywords look for one of your files?
You can see all keywords in the ExifTool Command Processor (<F9>,<E>) with these arguments:

-G1
-IPTC:Keywords
-XMP:Subject
-XMP:HierarchicalSubject
{Files}


Basically this sounds to me that on write-back, your hierarchical WHO|John keyword is transformed into the flat keyword "John" and on re-import IMatch of course adds that keyword on the root level.

We need more info from you to analyze this.

[emef]

Sounds like you have created a problem by how you make IMatch flatten your hierarchical keywords, how your thesaurus is set up etc.

So I try to arrange, I grouped under three main branches: Who; where; What.

How did you to that? Did you setup a thesaurus and then introduced the WHO, WHERE, WHAT as group levels?

[I have a thesaurus, I changed, but whenever IM multiplies keywords, it seems to add to the thesaurus.]

If I move photos "Robert" to "Who / Robert", they disappear (at first) to "Robert".

How do you "move" files from one keyword to another? Do you use the Keyword Panel to work with your keywords? Or do you drag files around in the Category View, in the @Keywords hierarchy?

[When I realize key-words I want to get rid, I select the photos with this or these, key words and then with the Panneeau key words, I delete what bothers me and I réatribue good key words and finally I click the green "V". Then, depending on the case, I register the data with the yellow pencil.
I used the Panel "category", where I served six automatic tabs, three categories themselves, and three which include the "who / where / what" ofKeyword. I try to create the same headings for categories and keywords.
(see attachment "category and keywords).]

Things to check:

+ Do you use group levels for keywords?

[Yes]

+ How did you set them up in your thesaurus?

[Manually, I create groups and subgroups, then copy and paste, I redistributes keywords to their right place, and then I erases the word that I have put.
Unfortunately, it seems that IM recreates me.]

+ Do you write hierarchical keywords or do you make IMatch flatten them? If so, how?

[see attached]

+ What are your keyword options under Edit > Preferences > Metadata?

[see attached]

How do the XMP, IPTC and hierarchical keywords look for one of your files?

[I do not understand this question]

You can see all keywords in the ExifTool Command Processor (<F9>,<E>) with these arguments:

-G1
-IPTC:Keywords
-XMP:Subject
-XMP:HierarchicalSubject
{Files}


[Ok]

Basically this sounds to me that on write-back, your hierarchical WHO|John keyword is transformed into the flat keyword "John" and on re-import IMatch of course adds that keyword on the root level.

[Okay, advice would be helpful because my English is rudimentary and in response to this message, I used my Google translation.
Sorry to be a bit long for the explanation.]
We need more info from you to analyze this.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[emef]

Sorry to insist, but a little help would be appreciated because at the moment I catalog without understanding where the rub. So, I tend to not do anything.   
Thank you in advance.

[Mario]

I'm not sure that I can fully understand the problem you are seeing.

You have created a keyword hierarchy as follows:

[Who]
|- Robert

in your thesaurus. Who is a group level, which means that this level only exists in the IMatch thesaurus. When you assign the keyword WHO|Robert to a file, only the keyword Robert will be written. And this means that in @Keywords (which mirrors the keywords in your files), the file will be assigned to

@Keywords
|- Robert

[emef]

I'm not sure that I can fully understand the problem you are seeing.

You have created a keyword hierarchy as follows:

[Who]
|- Robert

in your thesaurus. Who is a group level, which means that this level only exists in the IMatch thesaurus. When you assign the keyword WHO|Robert to a file, only the keyword Robert will be written. And this means that in @Keywords (which mirrors the keywords in your files), the file will be assigned to

@Keywords
|- Robert

Hello,
yes, I totally agree, but what I want is that when I assign a photo to the keywords "Robert" this one enrolls in the right place, ie d. under "@Keywords | -Who | - Robert," and only then, when the moment comes more out of my "About" Where "What" (but still in the @Keywords branch).
I would like that from the time I attributed a certain order in the branch "@Keywords" every time I assign a new (or existing) keywords it will place under the tree that I created, and do not be split down, outside the "group level".
I hope to be clear, and you understand what I'm trying to explain.   

[Ferdinand]

Who is a group level, which means that this level only exists in the IMatch thesaurus. When you assign the keyword WHO|Robert to a file, only the keyword Robert will be written.

what I want is that when I assign a photo to the keywords "Robert" this one enrolls in the right place, ie d. under "@Keywords | -Who | - Robert,"

Then you need to edit the properties of "Who", "What" and "Where" in the thesaurus and turn off the Group setting.  As Mario said, if a node in the thesaurus is marked as Group, then it only exists in the thesaurus, and it won't get written to the file, and so it won't appear in @Keywords.  You want it to appear in @Keywords, so you want it written to the file, so you must turn off Group.

[emef]

My apologies, I did not understand that selecting "group level", I not only prevented keyword to be flattened (that I understood) but I did not allow it to appear in the sub-branch created under "@ Keywords / 0_who / John Doe" and suddenly, it was displayed at the root of @Keywords.   

Thank you both.   

[Mario]

Just remember, that the @Keywords category hierarchy mirrors exactly the hierarchical keywords you see in your files.
If you let IMatch write the hierarchical keyword Who|Mario, @Keywords will show

@Keywords
|- Who
   |- Mario


If the hierarchical keyword is only "Mario", IMatch will add it directly under @Keywords.

The thesaurus allows you to add organizational levels (like Who) so you can better deal with large hierarchies. It's up to you if and how you use these advanced features. Usually there is no harm in including groups like "Who" in your hierarchical keywords. But you may declare it an exclude group for mapping hierarchical keywords to flat keywords. In this case the file will have

"Who|Mario" as an hierarchical keyword, but "Mario" only in the XMP subject and IPTC keywords.

[emef]

What I want is that all the key words appear only in the three branches (who, where, what) when I go to the "Categories" tab
(between tabs "Media & Files" and "Chonologie ").
This is can be an aesthetic aspect, but it's important to me. In summary, I want to find any keywords in the root ofKeywors.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Ferdinand]

You said that you wanted Who to appear in @Keywords, but not to be flattened.  I'd like to highlight part of Mario's answer that pointed to the Exclude option.  It is an alternative to Group that will do exactly this. 

[emef]

Thank you again, thanks to you both I understand better.
My English is rudimentary, I pass next to evidence in the help file (I would give much for a French version of the help       ).
I am indeed trying to remove "group level", placing the main branch in the "excluded" and I deleted all the thesaurus which is at the root, except the "who / where / what" and sub-branches.
We'll see what happens.   

[emef]

Good evening, unfortunately this does not seem to work at home. 

Remember, I have given every "group level = no" and deleted all the keywords of the thesaurus (outside "who / where / what") that were at the root.
I take a picture in the "Keywords" panel, after selecting "delete all keywords", I create a new keyword (or I apply an existing). It puts me well in one of three main branches, but at the same time, I created the root (outside "who / where / what"). If I check in the thesaurus, the new keyword appears well under "keyword".   
It was in despair.   

[Ferdinand]

I'm not sure that I understand you correctly, but I think I do.  Can you please post a screen shot of your Metadata (not Metadata2)  preferences.  I think that what is happening is that you haven't got these settings quite right.

Are you saying that these flat keywords are mysteriously appearing in the thesaurus, as well as under @Keywords?  If that is the case, then in the Keywords panel, in the panel toolbar, there is a gear icon with a little drop-down arrow.  Uncheck "Add new keywords to the thesaurus". 

That will stop the flat keywords being imported into the thesaurus outside the hierarchy.  Once we fix your metadata preferences then we can stop the same thing happening in @Keywords.

edit:  actually, once we fix the problem in @keywords by fixing metadata2 preferences, that should solve the thesaurus problem as well.

[emef]

Thank you Ferdinand.

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[Ferdinand]

I can't replicate your problem using your settings.  There is another combination of settings that does, but you're not using it.  So at this stage I am out of ideas.  I'll see if I have any more.  Sorry.

[emef]

Thank you for trying.