Migrating Light Table in 3.6 to Imatch 5

[kiwilink]

Mario:

I have several Categories that have hundreds of pictures in them.  I have sorted them using the Light table.  Will my sorts using Light Table carry over to the new IMATCH?

Thanks!

Michael

[Mario]

IMatch 5 also has a custom sort mode (aka light table sort). When I write the database converter later during the beta test phase I shall make sure to migrate the light table sort order as well. If not, remember me at that time.

[calypso1102]

Can I find out if Light Table Sort was indeed migrated forward to IM5?
This is very important to me for both folders and catagories. I spend 99% of the time in IM3 in Light
Table Sort. I just converted to IM5 (5.6.12) and find Custom Sort does not recall the Light Table Sort from IM3. I have over 1000 directories (folders) with over 330,000 images. I would prefer not to have to renumber every directory in IM3 and reconvert the database. The renumber will only help in Folder view and not in Catagory view.
After 13 years I cannot rearrange each folder as I encounter it. I searched the Discussion Board and foudn this post indicating that is was being planned and a subsequent post that it was still pending, then nothing.
I appreciate any help.
Darlene and Jim

[Mario]

You are trying to wake up a post that is three (3) years old.

Most users converted their IMatch 3 databases two years ago.
If the database converter does not convert custom sort orders (I honestly don't recall at this time, it's so long ago) there were technical reasons for it. And in that case, we cannot change it now, after two years time, sorry.

[sinus]

What did I in such cases:

simply numbering the images in IMatch 3 with help of a metadata-field, what you did not use.
Then after the conversion, adding a sorting for that field.

Then you have exactly the same ordering like in IM 3.

[calypso1102]

Mario,
When I did not see a conclusion to the question in the forum I guessed that was the case. However I needed to ask and get confirmation before deciding how my next step.
Sinus,
I am not an expert in Metadata and it has been my process to re-number files (with a prefix number) to enable blocks of files to remain in a numerical/alphabetical order as I moved them from one directory to another. I can go back to IM3 and perform a re-number for the entirity of each directory. I discovered another problem that arose when I moved selected and re-numbered files from one directory to another in IM5. The files moved and stayed in a block, but the sort was by time taked, not alpabertical. Custom sort was the chosen sort order. In IM3 when I moved files, they might be at the top or at the bottom of the target directory (normally the bottom) and in alphabetical (standard) sort. I can now use the "subset sort" to alphabatize them but it is cumbersome to do so.
Is there some help file that describes how IM5 addresses the order for moved files depending upoin the sort order selected at the time?
ex: I use custom sort to arrange files, renumber to establish that the numbers agree with the sort, change the sort to "default" and then move the files. Will they remain in a block or will they intersperse depending upon the prefix numbers of the pre-existing files? This problem exists for metadata sort as well.
I know very little about programming, but is there some script for IM3 that can renumber every directory with a 4 digit number (none of my directories have more than 7000 files) while in light table sort? Each directory would start with 0001DSCxxxxx.jpg, i.e. work on each directory recursively?
Right now I am in limbo until I can decide what to do with photos taken in the last 2 weeks that have been pending the conversion. IM3 and IM5 will diverge when I continue whichever path seems to work best.
I apologize for the lengthy post and all the naive questions but I need to avoid blundering forward without knowing if there is a simple solution for my needs.
Darlene & Jim

[Mario]

If you move files from one folder to another, their custom order cannot travel with the files. Custom sort orders are stored per folder (per category, ...).

If you add new files to a folder (or move files from one folder), these files don't have a custom sort order. If the file window is set to custom sort, the files will appear in their native sequence (the order in which they have been added to the database). You need to establish a custom sort order for the files for the new folder first.

You can switch to, e.g. the Default sort profile to get an alphabetical sort, select the files you have moved and then press <Shift>+<Ctrl>+<R> or use the Additional Functions > Reset Custom Sort command from the context menu in the File Window to set the custom sort order of the selected files to the order in which they currently appear in the File Window. This enables you to preset custom sort order using any sort profile you have.

[sinus]

I know very little about programming, but is there some script for IM3 that can renumber every directory with a 4 digit number (none of my directories have more than 7000 files) while in light table sort? Each directory would start with 0001DSCxxxxx.jpg, i.e. work on each directory recursively?
Right now I am in limbo until I can decide what to do with photos taken in the last 2 weeks that have been pending the conversion. IM3 and IM5 will diverge when I continue whichever path seems to work best.
I apologize for the lengthy post and all the naive questions but I need to avoid blundering forward without knowing if there is a simple solution for my needs.
Darlene & Jim

Darlene and Jim

You have over 1000 folders.
And inside each folder maximum 7000 files, totally about 330'000 files.

Phew, quite a lot. 

Unfortunately I do not more have IM3 (would not work with Win 10 anyway) and to be honest, I cannot more remember very good, since IM5 is  out quite some years.
Hence only some things, what I know, but I do not know, if this helps:

- you are correct, a script, I think, could help here. The script would for example select all files in the folder and renumerting them by adding a 0001,0002 ... in front of each filename. Maybe this step (let the script running) must you do with every folder. But I am also not a scripter (only basic), but I know, maybe it would be even easier. The problem is, I have no more IM3-scripts here. But I am quite sure, there are still such scripts out there.
Maybe you could ask here in the script-forum for this? This is the forum https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?board=16.0

- if you do not want to change the filename, you could also do the same (0001,0002...) in a metadata-field, means, in the iptc itself or I guess better in the properties. But also this would require a script.

Hm, from my point of view custom sort order is always (for me) a bit dangerous. Because, if you take IMatch, it works only there. If you send some images out or use another program, the sort order is gone.
That is the reason, that I do, if I create a custom order, write this order in a metadata-field (I did this also in IM3). Because then I have the normal filename like

2016-06-14-09h32-text.jpg

And I have the custom-sorting-name in a metadata-field, like

001-2016-06-14-09h32-text.jpg

If I then must have the custom sort order, I can sorting in IMatch the thing with a custom sort order (choosing the metadata-field as the first sort-field).
And if I must sorting the files in another program (slideshow or web or whatever) I can change the filename in IMatch, and take the metadata-field - entry as the filename.

With such a lot of files I would think good about, what to do.

Sorry, that cannot help you more specific.

[Mario]

The easiest method to persist / carry over the custom sort order would be a script which writes a number into an IMatch 3 property. The database converter migrates IMatch 3 properties into IMatch 5 Attributes and hence the number would be available for sorting in File Windows. This order can then be written to the custom sort order for folders using the keyboard shortcut.

Such a script is not hard to write.
Unfortunately, I don't have IMatch 3 installed anymore.
I removed it from my computers with the official support end for IMatch 3, in January 2015.

[calypso1102]

Mario and Sinus,
thank you for the suggestions. I will read up on the scripts. I am not a programmer so I have never written a script for iMatch. But necesssity has arrived.
I do have IM3 running on my Win-10 laptop, but if there might be a problem with the install I will move the database and make any changes on my Win-7 machine. At least my Win-7 machine has an SSD.
Whenever photos leave iMatch currently, we renumber to maintain the order when building web pages (a la www.jimndar.net) or sharing with others. Other than that, almost all of the time my wife uses iMatch for managing our photos. She has never seen another program that gives such control of the photos, catagories, attributes (description) and light table sort.
Thank you
Darlene & Jim

[Mario]

I'm sorry that this problem happened.
I don't know why the custom sort orders don't make it through the converter, but that was such a long time ago... and support for IMatch 3 has ended for good about one and a half year ago.

If renaming the files (even temporarily) to persist the custom order is not possible, a script is probably the most effective solution.
Unfortunately, I'm unable to help in this case. Setting up a PC, installing IMatch 3, developing a script etc. can easily take a full day (or more, if things go bad). I'm too busy already, as it is.

The first idea I had was a script which performs these steps:

For each folder in the database, get all files.
Sort them using the custom sort profile for that folder with the sorter class.
For each file, write the sequence number resulting from the sort into a property.
When you then convert the database again to IMatch 5, it will be available.

To avoid a re-conversion, the script could also write a CSV file. Basically a file with a a file name and the sequence number of the file per row.
This can then be used by the CSV File Import in IMatch 5 to fill an IMatch 5 Attribute for each file with the sequence number of the file. Then you can sort by it and persist it as the new custom sort order.

Another thought - without scripting

I don't recall anywhere how the text export worked in IMatch 3. But it has a feature which allows you to export text in CSV format. Maybe you can use this feature to export all file names to a text file, in their custom sort order. Then you only need a tool (e.g. Excel) which can add a second column to each row, with a sequential number, starting at 1.

When you then import this CSV file into IMatch 5, you can create one Attribute per file with that number. And when you then sort by this Attribute, your custom sort order is back.

[calypso1102]

Mario,
My wife and I discussed this quite extensively and decided to live with the existing conversion. Our descriptions (attribute now, formerly property) and all of the catagories converted. All of the directories are intact and can be sorted "by time" for a close approxiamtion of Lght Table. I will try to keep IM3 around as long as possible in case there is something else we need. Should that happen, I will utilize the "export/import" to "text" file as a CSV as you suggested. I have only exported in the past, but I can export/import for a single directory without having to learn how to script. The scripting language exceeds my skill/knowledge and I cannot find a script with enough similar functions for me to leverage. It is even more complicated if I want to recover the Light Table sort for a Catagory.
iMatch is too valuable to give up and Microsoft can make a change at any time that will stop IM3 from working. We will continue with IM5.
Best Regards,
Jim Robinson

[sinus]

Hi Jim
Thanks for your nice mail, with your information.

I do not know, how your images are and how they are named.
In IM5 to sort you have also different possibilities.
And do not forget the tool "renamer" included in IMatch. With this you can also do a lot.

But finally I think, you and your wife will manage this quite well.
Good luck.