General Question to @Keywords

[Richard Knobloch]

Hi Community,

as it is not possible to search dedicated for @keywords (it generates a database error...) I do post my question here. Maybe there was an answer earlier but...

I hope, I understood the pupose of the @keywords correctly as they should reflect (mirror) the keywords, already stored in the files.
In former times I just used a couple of Excel Spreadsheet for keeping track of my thousands of pictures and used a Tool (Fotoverwaltung - which is a Excel Spreadsheet with a couple of Macros, including an external Tool 'exiftool' for reading and writing data), for managing EXIF and IPTC Data. I used theam, as I thought it must be correct, because I am just an amateur in photographing.
I now found out, by using iMatch, that I misused the IPTC's catagories with content, which should not be public. My intention was to store these informations only in my spreadsheets.
These categories are now stored in iMatch as @keywords. This is, what I understood.
Now I want to get rid of these categories. I used categories, selected one of these @categories so I got a list of all files using this category. By selecting all of this files I could verify, that the category panel shhowed me an "X" as all of the files are using this category. To get rid of this, I deselected this catagory. The result is, that I now have a collections of unnwritten metadata. I pressed Shift-ctrl-m to write the metadata back to disk. This should rewrite all selected files and storing empty IPTC categories. If the process ends, all of the "unwritten metadata" are gone and the collection shows a sum of 0 files. Now iMatch rereads the Metadata again (I have no idea why iMatch dows this) and after this all of the assumed @Keywords are back again. Same amount of files as before.
I did the same thing with deleting the categoreis filed from another Application (ACDSee). restarting of this Application shows, that the fields are empty. If I try to reread the path in question again, to get rid of these categories, iMach shows me again unwritten Metadata and storimg them again fills up again the categories fields of the files again. A cross-check with ACDSee shows me, that the categories are filled up again.

Now my question: If this is not a bug in the software, how can I get rid of content of these @keywords categories?

Richard

[Mario]

as it is not possible to search dedicated for @keywords (it generates a database error...) I do post my question here. Maybe there was an answer earlier but...

A database error is very, very rare and usually caused by a physical damage to the database file.

Please give us details about how you search for keywords, there are many ways.
Please also give details about the error you are seeing (precise message, screen shot etc.)
Please run a database diagnosis via Database menu > Tools to ensure that your database is healthy.

These categories are now stored in iMatch as @keywords. This is, what I understood.

The old (now legacy) IPTC format had a categories field. IMatch 5 does not import these into keywords, unless you have enabled the option "Also use IPTC supplemental categories as keywords" enabled under Edit > Preferences > Metadata. Click <F1> while this dialog is open to open the corresponding help topic which explains about all the options.

When I understand you correctly, you have used one of the child categories under @Keywords in the Category Panel to remove the corresponding keyword from your files. You could have done this as well in the Keyword Panel.
Note that this will not change the contents of the legacy IPTC categories in your files. You are working with keywords, and there is no mapping between keywords and supplemental IPTC categories on write-back.

To delete the contents of the categories or supplemental categories in the IPTC record in you files, use the Metadata Panel. Switch to the Browser layout to see all metadata in your files.
Scroll down until you see the XMP Photoshop tag group. There you'll find the mapped legacy IPTC tags category and supplemental categories.  Empty the tag contents and write back. IMatch updates the XMP record and also maps these changes back to legacy IPTC during write back. Afterwards your IPTC categories will be gone.

[Richard Knobloch]

Thank you for the quick response,

just for clarification: The Databaseerror does not occur in iMatch, it occurs here in the forum, if I try to search for "@keywords" - I think, I do understand, WHY, beause most of the databases I know use the @-sign fo DB-internal stuff.
So I could not search for the specific word...

Back to my problem.
I understand, that the IPTC-categories are not imported by default and my option is switched off. My ACDSee shows me the Keywords in the IPTC-Panel in the Fieled "Kategorien". These informations are obviously saved in the iMatch-DB in Core Data - Keywords. As I understood you correctly the @keywords are a mirror of the Core Data Keywords. OK. I thought that the @keywords is just a mirror of the file's IPTC-data. Now I got it.
But I was always wondering, why I can mark all the files with the unwanted categories, deselect the checkboxes from the @keywords and then result of this is, that all the selected files has now the yellow pen for unwritten metadata highlighted and they can be found at the collection unwritten metadata as well. Wenn I leave the selection and press shift-ctrl-m or click the yellow pen, the metadata are written back to the files. This is, what I can see as activity on ma data-disc where the files are stored and this costs a big amount of time, as hundrets of files can not be written as fast as DB-entries.
If all is done, iMatch rereads the metadata and either the categories are back or the same amount of files stays with unwritten metadata.
So if iMatch does not write nback the data, what does it really?
But the first test i did, were with deleting the content of Core Data's Keywords. This was the most logial way for me to do this. But the behaviour was the same...

Have a look atthe screenshots. First shows the initial situation with 4.358 unwritten files with metadata. Note, that I have deleted the content of the Core Data's Keywords with all files marked and it shows definately empty. During the run, it shows with an amount of 8.772 files almost double the files. This may be, because I use very intensive the versions function (which was one of the features why I decided my purchase for iMatch), but not all of my files have a version of it - bus most of them.
In the third screenshot you see, that the CPU is working, the System Drive with the iMatch Software and Database on it (because it's a SSD) and the fouth drive with my files has a "liitle bit" of work. The Process Manager shows my, that up to three exiftool.exe are working, which shows me additionally, that the files are being updated.
After an hour or so, see screenshot 4, the work is done, I have the same amount of files and the Core Data's Keywords are back again. On the screenshot is only one file selected, but I can assure you, that all of the file's metadata are the same as before.

By the way: If you want to approve this post including the screenshots, you are welcome. There is nothing shown, what nobody should see.

Richard

[Mario]

IPTC categories and keywords are totally different things.

IPTC has a "categories" field, a "supplemental categories" field and a keyword "field". These are disjoint, each field can have different contents. I haven't seen ACDSee in years so I don't know why it would show keywords under the heading categories.

What do you mean by "Core Data"?

The Metadata Working Group has defined mapping rules between legacy IPTC data and XMP metadata. IMatch is fully compliant, which means that it performs these mappings (IPTC / EXIF / GPS => XMP) on import, and the opposite on export.

XMP metadata is what we use today. The IPTC data you speak of has been declared legacy and discontinued over 10 years ago by the IPTC committee. Legacy IPTC fields like categories have been declared deprecated and are not part of the IPTC Core data that is part of XMP. Or maybe some of them are, I suggest you refer to the MWG specification for details.

It would be very helpful if you could just attach one of your files. This would allows us to see the data in your files. and how IMatch imports it. Screen shots are pretty much useless. We would all safe a lot of time reading and writing when you attach one of your files.

[Richard Knobloch]

Yes, that's a really mess with all the different legacy "things". Every tool and translation has other words for it.
What I meant with "core data" is iMatch's metadata part, named "core data". Here is the field, which I meat, is defined as "keywords", Windows File Browser names it (Properties of the File) "Markierungen", which can be translated as "marks" and ACDSee names it "Stichwörter", which is the translation of your used name "keywords". iMatch is the only Application I know, which shows more informations as "{File.MD.XMP::Lightroom\hierarchicalSubject\HierarchicalSubject\0}".
For me, as a non-professional in terms of photograpy or graphic-processing this is a little bit confusing for me as I can not match all of the different namings and translations. I just see the content of the filed and try to match them. All the above said prperties of the different tools and applications contain the same information, which I want do delete, Your helpdfile clearly states in "Metadata Write-back", that the metadata can be written back, depending the configuration in "Edit - Metadata - Metadata2". All of the files using "Standard" as the configuration, I never changed this, so this is the default configuration. I just expect, that the data are written back, if I see files in the collection of unwritten metadata and press shif-ctrl-s or use the yellow pen while alle the files are selected. If iMatch behave in another way as I understood, thats fine for me, but I try to understand, what iMatch really does and why it obviously writes data to disk and obviously nothing changed. Not the metadata and not the amount of unwritten metadata after more than an hour of work.
Attached is one of the files with the metadata I want to get rid off. The content of the filed is "Scan mit Minolta C284e" - for easier search of what I meant. Sorry, that I have not thought of this possibility in my last post...

Richard



I clearly understood, that the use of XMP is the normed way to use metadata and that this makes life easier for use with raw-files.
Nevertheless the pictures I am talking about are scans of my analog taken pictures. I used an Excel based tool to store many of the old informations to store inside the jpg-files

[Mario]

Names...

IPTC used the term "keyword" for, well, keywords.
In the XMP standard, Adobe named keywords "subject". But they use the name "keyword" in their own applications for it. Or "hierarchical keywords" or just "keywords" instead of "hierarchical subject".
In "web" environments, the name "tag" is often used, because you "tag" a file with a keyword.

Some Windows versions use the name "keywords", Windows 10 now uses "tags" for keywords in Windows Explorer. They use "subject" for something different.

And of course there is a matter of translation. A German version of a software may use Schlüsselwort or Tag or Markierung or whatever.


IMatch always uses the "official" name of tags, as defined in the corresponding standard. I make exceptions where a different name is widely used, e.g. I use "keyword" instead of "subject" to avoid confusion. The "Default" Metadata Panel layout I include in IMatch uses the same names and (mostly) tags used by Adobe products - because a large share of IMatch uses uses Lr or Ps and using the same names for metadata fields in IMatch makes it easier for them.

For the 10,000 + metadata tags Lr does not support  IMatch uses the name defined by ExifTool - or the translated name, if available.

[Mario]

You want to remove which data from this file?
It has legacy IPTC data, but no data in category or supplemental category.

[Richard Knobloch]

There should be a "tag" with the content "Scan mit Minolta C284e". This is the tag, from which I will delete the data from approx. 10.000 files.

Richard

[Mario]

This data is contained in an IPTC keyword.

The problem with this file is that the embedded IPTC record is incomplete/invalid.
IMatch checks for certain data that must always be part of the IPTC record, and if it does not find this data, it assumes that the file has no IPTC record.
This is the reason that during write-back, the IPTC data is not updated (so the old keyword sticks). During re-import after the write-back, ExifTool maps the keyword again into XMP.

Solution: Fix or remove the damaged IPTC record in the file. When you use the ExifTool Command Processor in IMatch (Tools menu) with the following commands:

-overwrite_original_in_place
-iptc:Urgency=0
{Files}


ExifTool rewrites the IPTC record and repairs it.
Then IMatch re-imports the file.

When you now remove the unwanted keyword in the Keyword Panel and write-back the file, IMatch detects that the file has a valid IPTC record and instructs ExifTool to map from XMP to IPTC. This will also remove the keyword from the legacy IPTC record.

Note: You can process any number of files with the ExifTool Command Processor. But test it first with a few file copies to ensure that thins work. Check the resulting metadata in IMatch etc.

[Richard Knobloch]

Hi Mario,

thanks for your Support. In fact, after removing the tags with the Exiftool Commandprocessor I can update the tags with the correct values.

By the way: Is it possible to change the language of iMatch from German to English because this woud better fit to the helpfiles.

Richard

[Mario]

By the way: Is it possible to change the language of iMatch from German to English because this woud better fit to the helpfiles.

Edit menu > Set Language

[Richard Knobloch]

THX