Upgrade to version 2017 - Why and when?

[lightchaser]

Dear forum members,
I've just read a post where a user urged to be able to use his database with the 2017 trial version. In that post Mario stated that ver 2017 was an evolutionary version rather than a big leap. Now my question: for me it`s not clear why I should upgrade and spend 60 bucks. Everything works okay with my 200.000 + database and I don't see any limitations with the current version and according to the release notes no real benefits for my daily work with vers 2017. Why, if now, and when for any reasons should I upgrade?
Franz
http://xdreamphoto.com/index.html

[Mario]

First of all, by buying your upgrade you show support for the IMatch project and my work.

I'm not a big U.S. company making billions of dollars selling ads.
I work on IMatch every day.
I have to cover the costs for tools, software, hardware, server feeds annual license fees and royalties, whether you upgrade or not.

For example, you have just posted your question on a server i have to pay for every month. And which does not bother you with advertisements.

And, if you have an IMatch 5.5 license, you have got about 30 updates from me, free of charge.
I don't know if you work for free, but I surely cannot. I don't spend your money on big buildings or fancy cars.


Second: all the new and exciting IMatch 2017 features are covered on the "IMatch 2017, What's New" page:

https://www.photools.com/imatch-2017-whats-new/


Third: Support for IMatch 5.5 will end on November 30. 2017.

[akirot]

@ lightchaser: check which functionality has been discarded with IMatch2017! (E.g. Basic scripting is not there any longer. If your workflow relies on that your time invest might be sent to the bin).
Then decide whether you just support Mario by upgrading or stay with Imatch 5.

[ubacher]

I see it this way: sooner or later you will have to upgrade.
Mario has to be paid somehow. Consider the upgrade cost as a yearly usage fee.

As to the scripting: a real big pain. I have been on it and I converted some of my essential scripts, others are waiting for
scripting functionality. I wont stop using IM5 until I have all scripts working. (Even though I paid for it.)

It makes sense that Mario only adds functionality if a need for such is indicated.

[Carlo Didier]

I'll have to stick with IM5 for a long time because:
- there is nothing new in IM2017 that I need now or in the future
- I highly depend on my old scripts which cannot be rewritten for IM2017 and the gargantual time invest necessary just to get them working 10% like the old ones is just too much for nothing, but that's a very personal case.

BUT: I bought the upgrade to support Marios wonderful work and in the hope that someday I might be able to move on.

[sinus]

I have some really good scripts for me in IM5. That is why I work still daily with IM5.
Although I can surely work with IM5 still one or two years (support ends Nov 17), the day will come, that I have to work with Im2017.
I guess, that I will still work with IM5 for several monthes, maybe even the next year.

For me personally (and it seems for some others too) it scripting the big problem.
See https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=6840.0 and I must say, that we have a very gentle community here, in my case Thorsten helped me to make a big step.
But of course there is still a lot to do for me (scripting), that I can use IM2017.

We should also think about changing our workflow, and lern to script what we want, or hope that IMatch2017 or a user comes one day with scripts, what we could use.
In the old IM5 we had quite a lot of scripts, uploaded by users, and I think, the scripting source for IM2017 will also extend, by users or/and IMatch itself.

And yes, Mario gave and gives a great support, I want also say thanks with upgrading, and if we look, what other DAMs or Photoshop or whatever costs, so IMatch is still very, very affordable and fair.
I did not upgrade just now, only work with free download, but I will upgrade for surely in the next days or weeks, simply to support Mario.

[Mario]

I did not upgrade just now, only work with free download, but I will upgrade for surely in the next days or weeks, simply to support Mario.

See it this way: Over the past weeks, how many hours of my support did you accumulate?

1 hour? Then my support would be worth 70$ per hour.
2 hours? Then my support would be worth 35$ per hour.

Looking over your questions and threads in the past couple of weeks alone, I would say that I, at least, spent 3 or four hours responding to you, explaning things, writing posts, writing code for you etc. Say, 4 hours.

Even if you now purchase your upgrade for 70$, you paid me only 17.5 US$ per hour.
And this is only true if you never ever require my support in the future.
And this calculation does not include the cost for IMatch 2017 itself!

With every question you post here that I answer to, you pay me less and less per hour.
I don't know what you charge per hour for your services, but I'm quite sure that it is more than ~15 € per hour.

I'm sure that most users understand that I'm not a charity. If I don't make enough money from IMatch to cover the costs, I will see that I spend my time with making software that does.
People not upgrading is the reason why more and more software companies switch to subscription models - because they don't have another chance.

[sinus]

I did not upgrade just now, only work with free download, but I will upgrade for surely in the next days or weeks, simply to support Mario.

See it this way: Over the past weeks, how many hours of my support did you accumulate?

1 hour? Then my support would be worth 70$ per hour.
2 hours? Then my support would be worth 35$ per hour.

Looking over your questions and threads in the past couple of weeks alone, I would say that I, at least, spent 3 or four hours responding to you, explaning things, writing posts, writing code for you etc. Say, 4 hours.

Even if you now purchase your upgrade for 70$, you paid me only 17.5 US$ per hour.
And this is only true if you never ever require my support in the future.
And this calculation does not include the cost for IMatch 2017 itself!

Hmmh.

I don't know what you charge per hour for your services, but I'm quite sure that it is more than ~15 € per hour.

Not necessarly. I take money for taking pictures.
If a client afterwards has questions, I should upload this and that, I should make image smaller, he has lost the pictures, then this all is for free! My clients pays nothing for that.
I have also a good support for my clients.

And - in contrary to most softwares - for me the wishes of a client is the point (he is the king), not my wishes.
I cannot say, I do only send you jpgs or pdfs or whatever, because they are state of the art, if he wants "bmp-files", I will send them, and will not say "bmps are oldfashioned, I do not more deliver them".

But programmers can and do this, they say, this and that is out, we do not more support it.
But ok, maybe we cannot compare this, every business is different.

I'm sure that most users understand that I'm not a charity. If I don't make enough money from IMatch to cover the costs, I will see that I spend my time with making software that does.

I think, most of users does understand this.

[Mario]

Not necessarly. I take money for taking pictures.
If a client afterwards has questions, I should upload this and that, I should make image smaller, he has lost the pictures, then this all is for free! My clients pays nothing for that.

Yes. But at that time, you already have been paid for your work.

You are currently using a free TRIAL version of IMatch 2017.
And if you don't upgrade, all my support cost will never be paid and I have actually lost money on you.

Of course I do support my software and I do support TRIAL versions. But usually this does not mean to spend hours writing answers in community about programming topics.

Different thing.

[sinus]

Not necessarly. I take money for taking pictures.
If a client afterwards has questions, I should upload this and that, I should make image smaller, he has lost the pictures, then this all is for free! My clients pays nothing for that.

Yes. But at that time, you already have been paid for your work.

You are currently using a free TRIAL version of IMatch 2017.

Yes. I am using a Trial Version of IMatch2017.
Why?
Because I cannot use IMatch2017 out of the box, because all my scripts does not more work.
If I could use my scripts, I would have one of the first persons what had upgraded and payed.
When IMatch 5 came out, I bought for example 2 licences, without knowing, if I could use one. (2 years later or so, I could use it)

So I have to test all first. But I cannot test it with my real DB, because the trial works not with it, only with DBs, created in the last 30 days.
Hence I have to create a new one, and try to import all my categories, collections, attributes and so on.
And then, the most difficult thing, if I want using a script, I have to lern parts of JS and try to create a script.

And all this takes time.

And if you don't upgrade, all my support cost will never be paid and I have actually lost money on you.

Of course I do support my software and I do support TRIAL versions. But usually this does not mean to spend hours writing answers in community about programming topics.

Different thing.

I wrote several times, not depending, if I will use IMatch2017 or not, I will upgrade and pay for it.

And I will try to ask not more a lot of questions here, because you have lost money on me.

[Mario]

And I will try to ask not more a lot of questions here, because you have lost money on me.

That's nonsense. This community is for asking questions.
I just wanted to highlight that all this costs money, and if people don't upgrade, I'll lose money and need to pay from my own pockets so users can use IMatch. Makes no sense, right?

[sinus]

Right.

So let's IMatch be better and better. 

[Frank]

+1What Sinus wrote

[Laurent]

I'm an amateur user of IMatch, and have little interest in scripting or many of its other advanced features as used by professionals and power users.  Nevertheless I have upgraded to IMatch 2017, using the offered discount, even though it presents few differences to me compared with IMatch 5.5.

IMatch is an outstanding program and the support provided by Mario is second to none. That's from personal experience, not from hearsay. When I had a problem installing IMatch 5.5 on Windows 7 he responded as though he had nothing else to do with his time and the problem was solved almost within the hour. Quality programming and superlative service deserve to be supported.

In addition, Mario is to be congratulated on staying with the paid upgrade path, rather than going to the subscription model.

For these reasons I'm very happy with my new purchase.  At the same time I have sympathy for those who've spent perhaps weeks of their time developing scripts and now find them useless under IMatch 2017.

[jeknepley]

+1 what Laurent said....

[pajaro]

+1 what Laurent said....

+1 very well said

[Mario]

(...) using the offered discount, even though it presents few differences to me compared with IMatch 5.5.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts 

IMatch 2017 brings a lot of new and enhanced features for all users.

+ Better performance
+ Less memory consumption
+ Better video support
+ Much improved map panel
+ A complete set or new or updated apps
...and it is also a technology basis for the things to come...

A few users are more or less affected by the final "good-bye" to the legacy BASIC scripting system. This was inevitable.

I paid royalties for WinWrap BASIC for 10 years and kept the programming model in IMatch stable for the same time (except some required changes required by an upgrade of the BASIC engine in IMatch 5 in 2014). But no more.

Getting rid of BASIC opened the way for changes and new features in many ways. I will roll out these over the next 8 to 12 months.

We have now a modern, powerful, super-fast and versatile scripting environment. Access to thousands of free JavaScript programming libraries. covering all topics from user interface to animation to artificial intelligence. Awesome things can be done now.

Users can now write IMatch "scripts" in all modern languages, from JavaScript to Java, C++, C#, Python, PHP and even PowerShell.
And they can write apps for IMatch and IMatch Anywhere using the same tools and technologies.

[nacho02]

In my opinion,

this here is what the discussion should focus on:

+ Better performance
+ Less memory consumption
+ Better video support
+ Much improved map panel
+ A complete set or new or updated apps
...and it is also a technology basis for the things to come...

These points have been provided by MArio himself.

When we focus on these points, the rest will me automatic. Mario and his support gets fineanced and we are all happy :-)

[MyMatch]

I am soooo slow ;-)

I am still in my migration from IMatch 4 to IMatch 5 ...
And i am still not finished with scripting for IMatch 5 ...
And now this ...

***panic***

[Mario]

There was never an Match 4 (my fault, IMatch 3.6 should have been named IMatch 4).
But that was, what, 2012 ?

IMatch 5 was released in June 2014.
IMatch 5.5 was released in December 2015.

There were breaking changes in scripting for IMatch 5 because I've upgraded to a new version of WinWrap at that time.
That was three years ago, though.

Now, IMatch 2017 has no BASIC scripting anymore. 10 years is enough. Thing of the past.

[MyMatch]

Ah, yes. I meant 3, sorry.

And yes, i migrate since 2 years.
Will need 1 more year till i arrive at IMatch 5.
I am slow ;-)

You may remember, i stopped as i noticed that i have problem to make sure that IMatch does NEVER ever touch my originals - and i did not want to make the files read-only.
So, even more slow through this.

And now this ... an IMatch 6, only for 2017?
And the next in 2018 and so on?

And yes, of course i run Windows 7 64 Bit and plan to do so the next 10 years

The world is too fast for me ;-)

First, i will update my 5.7.2 to 5.8.4

[ubacher]

Users can now write IMatch "scripts" in all modern languages, from JavaScript to Java, C++, C#, Python, PHP and even PowerShell.

1. This assumes the user knows how to use these modern languages.
2. True once we get the missing functionality.

The potential of the new scripting is fantastic. Once there are users who write scripts usable by others the functionality of Im (already fantastic)
will grow. This will make Im much more attractive. It may be the availability of one special script/app which gets people to use Im!

For Mario the new scripting means he will be able to add functionality much easier and thus provide upgrades for which he can charge and thus support himself.
( thus a user providing widely useful scripts/apps could be seen as a potential "rival" for Mario - a potential conflict we need to avoid!)

[sinus]

You are currently using a free TRIAL version of IMatch 2017.
And if you don't upgrade, all my support cost will never be paid and I have actually lost money on you.

Just wanted to add, that I have bought some monthes ago a licence of IMatch Anywhere, also for support Mario, because I do not use Anywhere (checked it out shortly, if it works).

[sinus]

You may remember, i stopped as i noticed that i have problem to make sure that IMatch does NEVER ever touch my originals - and i did not want to make the files read-only.
So, even more slow through this.

I can remember. 
That was it.
Each human has its own speed. 

Good luck with IMatch anyway, whatever version you use.

[sinus]

Users can now write IMatch "scripts" in all modern languages, from JavaScript to Java, C++, C#, Python, PHP and even PowerShell.

1. This assumes the user knows how to use these modern languages.
2. True once we get the missing functionality.

The potential of the new scripting is fantastic. Once there are users who write scripts usable by others the functionality of Im (already fantastic)
will grow. This will make Im much more attractive. It may be the availability of one special script/app which gets people to use Im!

For Mario the new scripting means he will be able to add functionality much easier and thus provide upgrades for which he can charge and thus support himself.
( thus a user providing widely useful scripts/apps could be seen as a potential "rival" for Mario - a potential conflict we need to avoid!)

I agree fully.
But I have seen some users here, who are really overhelmed with the new scripting languages.  In my opinion, to help such users, some easy scripts would help a lot. But not some for these users (like me) cryptic examples, but real scripts. These examples are for users like you, I think, very helpful and Mario did for sure a lot of work in it.
But "simple" users like me cannot use it really.
Thorsten wrote for me such a script, what I mean. I call it easy (I have seen the lines), Mario called it difficult. Mario has maybe right, Thorsten could do it, I could not.
https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=6840.0

But in contrary to all the examples what came with IMatch, with this script I can work.
And I am sure, for some users such "easy, finnished scripts" would help.

That is why I like your uploads and I hope, that other users will also upload some scripts.
At the end maybe we have here a lot of scripts. 

And you, ubacher, are also an exception  ... you work fast and hard and have a good understanding of programming, I think.

PS: Mario, this is the last time, that I wrote something about "easy scripts", don't be afraid. 

[Jingo]

I think all the script "unease" really points out how powerful IMatch has been all these years... to allow users to create complex scripts that further extend a product is simply amazing in modern software...  Now, I haven't had time to dive fully into the scripting point but I suppose I'm not truly the power user I thought I was... because IM2017 IS doing all I need pretty much out of the box.  For times when I need a little something else, I have freeware programs that I can drag/drop into to automate processes..

I know it is always a daunting process to learn a new programming methodology - I just went through a 3 year process at my own job - but stick with it folks... the skills you will learn programming for IMatch can serve you well in other ways since they are industry standards... heck - perhaps you'll be making a side-job out of your new knowledge and skill!!

Thx Mario for such a great product.. and for your support... I wish ALL my software developers provided hourly forum updates to my questions/requests!!

[Mario]

I wish ALL my software developers provided hourly forum updates to my questions/requests!!

On goal for many of the behind the curtain changes, server switches, new web site, new customer portal etc. that happened over the past two years was to allow me to run the entire photools.com 'business' from a Notebook or even a smart phone. I only need a real PC for development work now (because of performance requirements).
I can provide support via email, manage this community and do maintenance for web sites using only a notebook - while sitting on a beach somewhere...

The key to get so much work done alone is to apply the DRY principle. And to automate as much as possible. Maybe this response is written by the famous photools.com A.I. already...?!

[Carlo Didier]

We have now a modern, powerful, super-fast and versatile scripting environment. Access to thousands of free JavaScript programming libraries. covering all topics from user interface to animation to artificial intelligence. Awesome things can be done now.

Unfortunately, that's only partially true. It adds lots of what we usually call "bells and whistles", but compared to the old scripting engine, a lot of functionality has been lost. At the current state, you changed the body of the car to look more modern, but at the same time, concerning iMatch related functions (!), not the user interface, you replaced the old powerful V8 engine by a new, low powered and feature-limited two-stroke Trabant engine ... at least that's what it feels like. See the point? You did a facelift but killed half of the brain behind the face.

Put it another way: what use is a super dooper looking report if the engine that generates it doesn't even allow me to choose a sort order for the data it uses? The nice looks are one thing, but underlying functionality is something else, and that's where iMatch 2017 is lacking right now (always speeking in the scripting context!).

Powerful and versatile it will only be when it offers ALL the functionalities of the old scripting engine, plus anything new you might add.
And the thousands of free javascript libraries out there have absolutely nothing to do with iMatch functionalities. None of them will give me the renaming function that's missing in IMWS, for example.

[Mario]

old scripting engine, a lot of functionality has been lost.

A) Use the FR board to request features which have been lost. Then we can see how many other users need these features and I can add them. Or maybe we learn that you are the only user who needs that particular feature and it may get a low priority.

A.1 Check first if the feature has already been requested.

A.2 Don't ask for move/copy/rename/delete folders/files in the database. This will be added to IMWS in a large upgrade because it is more complicated to do that for IMWS than it was for IMatch 5. IMatch 2017 and IMWS allow scripts to perform multiple operations at the same time. IMWS will allow multiple users to manipulate databases at the same time. This requires additional locking / protection features and hence this requires a larger update.

[thrinn]

It adds lots of what we usually call "bells and whistles", but compared to the old scripting engine, a lot of functionality has been lost. At the current state, you changed the body of the car to look more modern, but at the same time, concerning iMatch related functions (!), not the user interface, you replaced the old powerful V8 engine by a new, low powered and feature-limited two-stroke Trabant engine

I have to disagree, and emphatically so. I won't say the opposite is true because IMatch has never been a two-stroke engine. It has always been at least a very decent middle class car. But in my opinion, there are a lot of speed and other improvements that are most remarkedly. The possibility to access the database over the net alone is a huge step forward.
Regarding scripting, in my opinion the possibilites have massively enhanced to. Just take a look at the extremely versatily files, metadata, attributes endpoint, for example with possibilities to filter "on the fly", specify exactly the fields you need and whatnot.
True, some things are missing (yet), for me especially the possibility to rename/move files managed by IMatch. But Mario has this already on his ToDo list (see this thread), so im confident we will get this functionality sooner or later.

I immediately bought IMA when it came out, and upgraded to IMatch 2017. And I am happy I did.

[MyMatch]

Good luck with IMatch anyway, whatever version you use.

Now.
Yesterday i upgrade to 5.8.4 and today i cannot start IMatch anymore!

A message about "mfc140u.dll" missing!

I am starting to search in Google, otherwise i would need to bug Mario - in case the version 5.8.4 is still supported :-O

EDIT: I made a new "repair" installation and then the DLL file was there!
:-|

[Jingo]

Powerful and versatile it will only be when it offers ALL the functionalities of the old scripting engine, plus anything new you might add.
And the thousands of free javascript libraries out there have absolutely nothing to do with iMatch functionalities. None of them will give me the renaming function that's missing in IMWS, for example.

Perhaps we need a list of scripts that users would like to see created or added to IM2017 - I mentioned earlier that I would be willing to spend the time to learn and program scripts for the community... I've just been slammed with "real work" stuff and haven't had the time.

I realize there are things that users want that can't be scripted yet due to non-implemented things.. but having a list by user would be a helpful starting place.  Would a forum entry be a good place or perhaps an open google spreadsheet? Happy to get things rolling if this is a good idea.  If not - just let me know that too and I will move along.. 

[sinus]

Powerful and versatile it will only be when it offers ALL the functionalities of the old scripting engine, plus anything new you might add.
And the thousands of free javascript libraries out there have absolutely nothing to do with iMatch functionalities. None of them will give me the renaming function that's missing in IMWS, for example.

Perhaps we need a list of scripts that users would like to see created or added to IM2017 - I mentioned earlier that I would be willing to spend the time to learn and program scripts for the community... I've just been slammed with "real work" stuff and haven't had the time.

I realize there are things that users want that can't be scripted yet due to non-implemented things.. but having a list by user would be a helpful starting place.  Would a forum entry be a good place or perhaps an open google spreadsheet? Happy to get things rolling if this is a good idea.  If not - just let me know that too and I will move along.. 

Of course this would be a great idea!
It would help a lot of users, I guess and also me. 

In what form such a list would be, I do not know, maybe Mario could decice where to store such a list?

Hm, would be really helpful. 

[jch2103]

Perhaps we need a list of scripts that users would like to see created or added to IM2017 - I mentioned earlier that I would be willing to spend the time to learn and program scripts for the community... I've just been slammed with "real work" stuff and haven't had the time.

I realize there are things that users want that can't be scripted yet due to non-implemented things.. but having a list by user would be a helpful starting place.  Would a forum entry be a good place or perhaps an open google spreadsheet? Happy to get things rolling if this is a good idea.  If not - just let me know that too and I will move along.. 

I pretty much use IMatch 'out of the box' so don't have a list of desired scripts. However, some kind of list would certainly seem to be helpful for potential developers to work from. An open Google sheet would probably be the best way to get a structured working list.

[DigPeter]

Perhaps we need a list of scripts that users would like to see created or added to IM2017 - I mentioned earlier that I would be willing to spend the time to learn and program scripts for the community... I've just been slammed with "real work" stuff and haven't had the time.

1.  John Zeman's "Ultimate Description Writer" which he created for IM5 - see attachment.  I use it a lot.

2.  Conversion of Lat/Long geodata to other types of coordinate - UTM, British National Grid.

Perhaps a wish list board should be created.

[Mario]

Why not just start a wish list thread in the appropriate board.
A moderator can then make it sticky so it stays at the top.

[Jingo]

Thanks all... I have created the Scripting Wish List in the following link: https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=6860.0

Please let me know if you have any questions or ideas... hopefully, this will help everyone in the community so please keep those ideas coming!  Enjoy - Andy.

[Mario]

I have changed the title (using the term App, which is more appropriate) and made the topic sticky. It now always stays at the top of the board.

[DigPeter]

Thanks all... I have created the Scripting Wish List in the following link: https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=6860.0

Please let me know if you have any questions or ideas... hopefully, this will help everyone in the community so please keep those ideas coming!  Enjoy - Andy.

Brilliant - many thanks Jingo

[Jingo]

I have changed the title (using the term App, which is more appropriate) and made the topic sticky. It now always stays at the top of the board.

  Thank you!

Thanks all... I have created the Scripting Wish List in the following link: https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=6860.0

Please let me know if you have any questions or ideas... hopefully, this will help everyone in the community so please keep those ideas coming!  Enjoy - Andy.

Brilliant - many thanks Jingo

My pleasure!