Can't modify EXIF date nd time

[tomdriver]

In my iMatch database I have some JPG photo files made by someone else's Nikon camera with erroneous time stamps.  My attempts to change the date and time with the "Modify EXIF date and time" tool fail.  I've consulted the Help files and tried to follow instructions.  Nothing works.  The Metadata panel will say it's Updating, but no change is made.  Please help.

[Mario]

This is a very old feature and designed to be used for JPEG files. Not for RAW files with external XMP metadata.

Did you check the ExifTool output panel if ExifTool reports and problems writing to the NEF file?
How did you check if your changes are working? In the ExifTool Command Processor? Or in IMatch somewhere?

Why don't you just update the two timestamps shown in the Metadata Panel and write back?
This will update the XMP record and synchronize the existing EXIF data in your NEF with the new date and time information.

[suttonbg]

I, too, have found problems recently with the "Modify EXIF date and time tool". Like tomdriver, I am trying to align, in time line view, a stream of my photos with those of a friend. His are jpegs and all are out by 25 minutes. As they are shot over the duration of an expedition, each has a different, but incorrect, time stamp in all time-related metadata fields (examined using the metadata panel).

Attempting to fix the problem by using the Modify tool in relative mode, for either single images or a batch, gives EXIF output (viewed in Output panel) that indicates changes have been made, but no metadata fields were actually changed. Taking the images one at a time and changing them using the Modify tool in absolute mode works well, but tediously, as does changing the data manually in the Metadata panel.

I'm almost certain this problem is recent, as I fixed another batch of his photos last week and also earlier fixed one of my own problems, when I photographed furiously in Amsterdam for two days before I remembered that my camera still thought it was on the other side of the planet.

As I have updated iMatch in the last couple of days, I will try to see if that is the problem by installing the previous version on another computer and setting up a small test database. Overall, I find the Modify tool extremely valuable. I mainly use it in absolute mode, correctly setting dates on old scanned images.

[Mario]

IMatch will report in the ExifTool output panel and the log file if ExifTool reports any problems.

I have not changed anything in this tool for a long time, and I will retire it for IMatch 2020 most likely. We have the TimeWiz app then, which is vastly more convenient and powerful.
Basically the Modify Exif DateTime produces an argument file for ExifTool and runs it.
Many things can go wrong, especially if you don't use it with JPEG files, if there is contradicting XMP data in the file itself or the sidecar etc.

We need as much information as possible.
The ExifTool output panel lists the commands sent by IMatch to ExifTool, an what ExifTool did and returned as warnings or errors. This is the first starting point to analyze this.

[suttonbg]

Dear Mario,

Thanks for your comments.

As a test, I set up Win10 Home in a virtual machine and loaded iMatch ver 2019.2.2. I made a database using copies of a subset of the troublesome jpegs. I found I could modify the time and date in both absolute and relative modes using the tool. I then updated to the latest version of iMatch and repeated the test with the same result, ie, flawless operation.

I returned to my main database, performed a cold boot and a repair of the iMatch ver 2019.5.2 installation and found again that the modify tool worked properly in absolute mode but not in relative mode.

I have attached .txt files of the EXIF output from attempting to use the modify tool in relative mode on a single file for the main database (ModifyRelMain.txt) and from the virtual database (ModRelTest.txt). I've also checked that the permissions to modify EXIF data (Preferences>Metadata2) in the main installation are on the default values indicated in the Help page.

I look forward to any advice you can offer.

[Mario]

IMatch correctly tells ET to shift the date and time by 25 minutes:

-EXIF:DateTimeOriginal-=0000:00:00 00:25:00
-EXIF:CreateDate-=0000:00:00 00:25:00

The log contains the warning:

Warning: No writable tags set from E:\ExpeditionReduced\05 Fishing Red Cone Creek (45).JPG


Does this image contain an EXIF record with a date and time? You cannot shift date and time if the file has no timestamps.

[suttonbg]

Dear Mario,

Many thanks for your time on this issue.

Further experimentation suggests it is confined to a smallish subset of the jpegs. I have selected one file that is modified correctly in relative mode (Iron Islands) and one which does not (Talbot Creek). For each, I attach a copy of their metadata. As well, after a restart of iMatch, I selected them as a group of two files and attempted to modify their time in relative mode. The output from the EXIFtool is attached as well as a zipped version of the debug log file for the operation.

How critical is a resolution of this issue to me? I think I found a cluster of poorly behaving files yesterday. Many of the ones I still need to modify appear to behave well with the Modify tool. The few that don't are easily identified later and can be adjusted with the tool in absolute mode. So, for my purposes, I would now rate the issue as not very important. However, I have provided the attached files in case the problem is one that might impair the new TimeWiz tool. If needed, I can also supply the two jpegs.

Kind regards

[Mario]

Please attach an image that fails. Or upload it somewhere and send me a link to support email address

If absolute works but relative fails, the most likely cause is that the file has no EXIF timestamp or only one. Then ExifTool cannot shift and will report "no data set".
Having a file to actually see the data will be helpful. All else is guesswork.

[suttonbg]

Dear Mario,

Thanks. I've uploaded the Talbot Creek file to WeTransfer which should notify you the file is ready via EMAIL REMOVED BY ADMIN.


ADMIN SAYS:
Please never include emails in your posts (there is a reason why I link to a protected web site and not just include my email in my posts...)
Bots are continuously harvesting communities like this for emails to abuse them to send or receive SPAM. My mail server blocks over 300 SPAM mails per day for my support account alone.

[tomdriver]

Mario:
Still having trouble modifying date and time stamps.  Have installed and am running iMatch 2019.5.2.  I'm trying to use  the "Modify EXIF Date and Time".  I don't know how to use "ExifTool Command Processor."  I'm working on JPG files, not NEF.  In the Metadata Panel I can modify the Date Digitized but not the Date Created.
My test file is a JPG size 4.08 MB.  When I look at its Properties in Windows Explorer, I see that its "Date taken" as displayed under the file's Details has been changed as I wanted.  But that change does not show up either in the iMatch Metadata panel or on the face of the iMatch thumbnail.  In the Metadata panel I can change the Date Digitized but not the Date Created.
Shouldn't this be easy?
Tom

========================================

This is a very old feature and designed to be used for JPEG files. Not for RAW files with external XMP metadata.

Did you check the ExifTool output panel if ExifTool reports and problems writing to the NEF file?
How did you check if your changes are working? In the ExifTool Command Processor? Or in IMatch somewhere?

Why don't you just update the two timestamps shown in the Metadata Panel and write back?
This will update the XMP record and synchronize the existing EXIF data in your NEF with the new date and time information.

[Mario]

The Default layout of the Metadata Panel allows you to change two XMP timestamps:

Created Date XMP::xmp\CreateDate\CreateDate
Date Subject Created XMP::photoshop\DateCreated\DateCreated

When you change these timestamps and you write-back, ExifTool will map the XMP timestamps back into the EXIF record of your file (assuming you use the default IMatch metadata options).
The Modify Date & Time command also modifies only these two timestamps.

These are the "official" XMP and EXIF timestamps. You say that you tried to modify "Date Created". But you could not. Why? Where?
This tag name is neither used in the Default Metadtaa Panel layout nor in the Modify EXIF Date&Time dialog.

It is unclear how you try to modify timestamps, if you write-back, what metadata your original file contains before you run your operation etc.

Please use the built-in features in IMatch for analyzing such issues:

1. The IMatch Log file See: log file
2. The ExifTool Output panel (See: The Output Panel)

The output panel will show us which commands IMatch sends to ExifTool when you write-back (or use the old Modify EXIF Date/Time command), if the process works, if ExifTool reports a problem updating your file etc.

Copy the contents the output panel after your operation into a text file and attach to your post.
This will give us something to work with.

Also, always upload a sample image somewhere and include a link. Seeing the actual file you are working with and retrying your operation here will be very helpful.

[Mario]

@suttonbg

I have downloaded and checked your problem file.

1. The first problem is: The metadata in the file was produced by Windows Photo Editor 10.0.10011.16384, which is not really good at working with metadata.

2. The second problem is that this file contains an embedded XMP record and an EXIF record, but these are not in-sync.
The XMP record contains the following timestamps:

[XMP-exif]      Date/Time Digitized             : 2017:08:23 11:51:29+10:00
[XMP-exif]      Date/Time Original              : 2017:08:23 11:51:29+10:00

The EXIF record contains the following timestamps:

[ExifIFD]       Date/Time Original              : 2017:08:23 11:51:29
[ExifIFD]       Create Date                     : 2017:08:23 10:30:29

so this causes issues, because the XMP reports a 10:00 hours UTC offset, but EXIF of course not. EXIF cannot deal with UTC offsets.
The EXIF timestamps and XMP timestamps in your files are apart by 10 hours.

3. The third problem is that the GPS data in the GPS record and in the XMP record don't match.

4. The 4th problem is that the file also has a legacy IPTC record, but also with mismatching timestamps.

5. The fifth 'issue' is that there are apparently some non-standard tags inside the EXIF record. No harm there, though.

This is quote a lot of a mess the Microsoft shitty app has created in that file.

When you just try to modify the date and time with the Modify EXIF Date & Time, the existing metadata in the file will cause issues because of that.

Solution: Fix your broken metadata first. Then you can also shift the timestamps properly.

I loaded your file into IMatch, clicked the pen in front of "CreatedDate" and "Date Subject Created" (in the Default Metadata Panel) and let IMatch write-back the file.
Now the data in your file looks like this:

[ExifIFD]       Date/Time Original              : 2017:08:23 11:51:29
[ExifIFD]       Create Date                     : 2017:08:23 10:30:29

[XMP-exif]      Date/Time Digitized             : 2017:08:23 11:51:29+10:00
[XMP-exif]      Date/Time Original              : 2017:08:23 11:51:29.40
[XMP-photoshop] Date Created                    : 2017:08:23 11:51:29.40
[XMP-xmp]       Create Date                     : 2017:08:23 10:30:29.40

[IPTC]          Date Created                    : 2017:08:23
[IPTC]          Time Created                    : 11:51:29+02:00
[IPTC]          Digital Creation Date           : 2017:08:23
[IPTC]          Digital Creation Time           : 10:30:29+02:00


Which is a lot better. Everything is now in-sync.
This should set things straight.

Alternatively, you could just delete the old legacy IPTC record and the EXIF data from the file and only keep the XMP data the Microsoft software has created.

[Mario]

PS.: I have figured that out quickly with the cool Metadata Analyst App, which will be included in IMatch 2020.
This is how the app shows the problems in your file:

[jch2103]

The Metadata Analyst App should be very useful for diagnosing situations like this. The problem will then be how users can best fix the problems. Perhaps there needs to be some kind of 'cookbook' for how to do this (there's lots of information scattered throughout the Forum but it's not integrated in a way that especially new users can easily put together).

I'm commenting as one who has spend a fair amount of time cleaning up various metadata messes left behind by misbehaving programs/applications. See, for example, https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=6657.0 and https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=1129.0.

[Mario]

Each app can have a help page, so this would then be the place to put the "How to fix" information.
Like the MDA this will be an ongoing task. I enhance the MDA whenever I encounter a mess like this (which is not that often anymore). But camera vendors and other software vendors are creating new types of mess all the time. And now that some camera vendors for some of their cameras start to write partial XMP records (of course without filling out the Exif part of XMP!) we''ll see some pretty interesting new effects.

I have spent too much time with this, I'm sick of it.

[jch2103]

That (app-based help) sounds good. Ideally, there will be enough self-help tools to reduce demands on Mario's time. Too bad this isn't a static problem (because of vendors adding new non-standard wrinkles).

[Mario]

I hope that the work I've put into the Metadata Analyst at least reduces the "diagnosis" part considerably. The user can run it and attach the results.

The MDA shows the results on-screen, but also has a handy "export results" feature which produces a JSON text file with all important info: IMatch version and metadata settings, metadata in the file, metadata in the sidecar, problems reported by ExifTool, problems detected by the MDA etc.

It's not finished, but it will be when IMatch 2020 comes out.

[suttonbg]

Dear Mario,

Many thanks for that clear diagnosis and explanation. I was given a stream of images from a fellow expeditioner and simply tried to fit them into the same timeline as mine as he had some shots I had missed. Not once did the thought cross my mind that he might not be using quality software to edit his images. Ah well, lesson learned. (Although given the frequency and freedom with which my children swap images with their friends, I wonder what problems they will find in the future. I don't think they have really appreciated that they are documenting their history and one day, they might have to organise it coherently.)

I do like the couple of examples you have shown for the new MetadataAnalyst, both here and previously. I agree that will be a powerful and flexible tool.

This has been another interesting learning curve but confirms I made the right choice in purchasing iMatch all those years ago.

Kind regards,

[Mario]

and freedom with which my children swap images with their friends, I wonder what problems they will find in the future. I don't think they have really appreciated that they are documenting their history and one day, they might have to organise it coherently.)

Many photos these days are taken by smart phones in JPEG (rarely DNG) format. Metadata is not an issue at all.
Most young folks are totally unaware of what it really means to let Google or Apple "backup" your data, analyze your files so they can present them in their "cloud" etc.
Or why these companies spend (hundreds of) millions of dollars to give people free email (gmail), free cloud space, free backup of all your personal data. Or services like Apple Pay or Google pay.

You don't need to keep track of your life - Google does it for you. They know more about you than you or your relatives ever will. If they will tell you, that's another thing.