NEF in the Viewer

[twe]

Hi
NEF files from D7100 does not allow dive-zoom in the viewer, and the display quality in the Viewer is not of good quality. I guess it is because of the cache, but I need to know what to change for optimal display speed and quality. The "Use embedded preview" is set to YES. NEF codec 1.81 and Imatch reinstalled with all default settings.
I use the Viewer in fullscreen, and when I click on the image to get 100% zoom, I only get a little bit of zoom. When I export a JPG copy of the same image from ViewNX2, the image displays sharp in Imatch and the dive zoom works fine. The NEF view looks to be the cache file, with only 80% quality and max size 1600 x 1200, but the embedded JPEG from the NEF is sharp and 6000 x 4000 pixels. Why is Imatch not using the embedded jpeg in NEF ?

Sample NEF files here: http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/nikon_d7100_review/sample_images/

[Mario]

What are your cache settings?
Which WIC codec do you use?
Do the files contain a full-sized embedded preview?

Select one of the files in a file window.
Then go to Help > Support > WIC Diagnostics.
Save the output to a text file and attach it to your reply. This will tell us what your WIC codec is able to extract from the file. Together with the cache settings this tells us what may be wrong.

[twe]

As stated in my post, my cache settings are the default, and the default is "use embedded preview = yes", and the WIC codec used is NEF codec 1.81, and yes the files contains the full-size embedded preview.  The NEF displays fine in Windows Photo Viewer, so the codec is working fine outside of Imatch.



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[Mario]

Preview: Codec 'Nikon .NEF Raw File Decoder'
   () 1620x1080 pixel in 32 ms.
Full resolution: Codec 'Nikon .NEF Raw File Decoder'
   () 6000x4000 pixel in 31 ms.

When you set IMatch to use the embedded preview, IMatch uses what the codec returns as the preview. In case of your WIC codec, this is only a 1620 pixel image.

[twe]

Ok. I did not set Imatch to anything, just did a clean install and used the defaults. The default result is not what I want, and I guess most users would want best quality for online images displayed in the Viewer. When choosing zoom to 100% it should be 100% of the full resolution (6000 x 4000), not 100% of 1620x1080. Faststone Viewer displays the embedded JPEG from NEF fine and without any tweaking, and the 100% zoom is Instant and sharp. 

What is the recommended settings for tuning Imatch to just grab the embedded full resolution JPEG from the NEF file ? I want Imatch to display my images in the best possible quality, which is essential for culling and comparing images etc. 

[Mario]

The embedded previews in your NEF files are only 1620 pixel. If you set IMatch to use this, this is all you get. IMatch can either use the preview, or the full-size image.

Either configure the producing application/camera to embed a 100% preview, or disable the option to use the embedded preview in IMatch.

[twe]

All my NEF files have a full resolution JPG embedded, and I am not sure why Imatch cannot use this when I send images to the Viewer for close inspections ?

Exiftool can easily extract a full resolution 6000 x 4000 jpg from NEF files. I have tried it and it works great ! (commandline test)

In the cache preferences the "use embedded preview" is the default.  The helptext for cache settings says "Enable this option to use the embedded preview images contained in most RAW formats. This is much faster than developing the RAW file". So does this mean that if I set this setting to NO, Imatch will use the Wic codec and start a time consuming process of developing the RAW file and fillig up the cache, instead of just letting exiftool grab the fullsize jpeg ? Maybe the cache files should be small and lowres, and only grab fullres images on demand when sending selected images to the Viewer ?

As mentioned, Faststone Viewer is very fast, and displays the fullsize Jpegs inside my NEF files instantly.  I would expect the new Viewer in Imatch to do the same, so it can be my  preferred tool for culling, comparing and rating images. So many exciting new features in the Viewer

Please advice on the recommended preferences settings for my needs.

[Mario]

Did you turn that "use embedded preview" setting off for a test? What's the outcome?

Exiftool can easily extract a full resolution 6000 x 4000 jpg from NEF files. I have tried it and it works great ! (commandline test)

IMatch can that too, but you don't let it. Yo set IMatch to use the embedded preview, and the embedded preview for your files returned by the WIC codec you use is 1620 pixel only.

Without a sample file I can tell you only what your WIC codec is telling IMatch - that when it extracts a preview from the NEF file, it gets a 1620 pixel image. You can see that yourself in the result of the WIC diagnosis. Usually the preview is either "none" so IMatch automatically falls back to loading the full image, or the preview is as large as the original file.

IMatch cannot look 'into' your WIC codec so it can only accept what it delivers. Where did you get that codec from?

If IMatch asks the WIC codec for a preview, it gets 1620 pixel.
I bet if you disable the "use embedded preview", IMatch will also get the full image.
FastStone does not use WIC codecs. Earlier versions of IMatch also had their own NEF processor, but I did not bother anymore for IMatch 5 because the WIC codecs are very good these days - usually.

[twe]

Yes I did set "use embedded preview" to off. The outcome is good, and the dive-zoom works, but the rescan\rebuild took very long time.  I think that a lot of users have NEF files, and it is bad if the default Imatch settings gives a poor viewer experience, and it is not documented nor recommended that the cache settings should be changed for NEF files. The 1620 pixel images with basic jpeg compression is in my opinion not usable at all.

As noted in my first post, I have downloaded the latest NEF codec from Nikon:
http://nikonimglib.com/nefcodec/

And I also posted a link to download som sample NEF files:
http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/nikon_d7100_review/sample_images/

So the problem is not on related to my machine and my own images, I reproduced this problem on my computer at work and with images downloaded from the photographyblog.com site.

Please give it a testrun   The difference in the Viewer between a 1620 basic jpeg, and a 6000 x 4000 normal\fine jpeg is huge !

[Mario]

I tried some of your NEF files, thanks.

The FastPicture codec and the MS WIC codec for NEF I have here both return "fail" for thumbnail extraction and embedded preview. So IMatch automatically falls back to loading the full 6000 pixel file. Apparently the Nikon WIC codec is the only codec which reacts on "extract preview" by "downsampling" the file to 1620 (?) pixel and returning it.

I suggest you use the built-in feature in IMatch to work around this behavior of the Nikon codec: Under Edit > Preferences > Cache set the minimal size to something larger than 1620 pixel. IMatch then loads the full-size image if the codec installed returns a preview image which is smaller than this size. You can see more details about this feature when you click on it in the dialog.

[twe]

I have tried to change the cache set to minimal size to something larger than 1620, but I got "corrupted" thumbnails when updating cache only (shift+alt+F5). I removed images from Imatch and added the folder back again, it took about 5 minutes (!) to process the 8 test images, (4 NEFs and 4 Jpgs) and the result is thumbnail in File window is fixed, but the images in the Viewer is not displaying, just a tiny icon.   I created a new database, added the folder with my 4+4 images, and it took over 5 minues for Imatch to finish background tasks, but after that Imatch got unresponsive (huge memory usage), and eventually had to ble closed.  See attached logfile.

After restarting Imatch, loading of NEF fil in the Viewer hung Imatch again, until there just was a tiny icon in the center for the Viewer.
Guess you can move this post to the bug report section....







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[Mario]

I see. IMatch tries to load the preview of "C:\im5test\20130725_215635.NE" at 1700 pixels. The WIC codec fails with error 1, and no additional error message (I need to lookup these error codes later).  Then IMatch tries to load the full-size image, and the WIC codec fails again, this time with error 8 and no additional error message.

The memory usage during this phase is quite high (87%) although IMatch has a working set of only 1.4 GB (you are in the viewer at this time). After closing the viewer IMatch goes back to about 350 MB memory usage.

Do you have log files of your other attempts? Can you send me the file you used for your test? My guess is that this is a problem with the Nikon WIC codec (again).

I can test your sample file it here quickly against the Microsoft and FPV NEF codecs. If they handle the file OK, we at least know that it's the Nikon codec again and not an IMatch problem or a problem in the imaging library I use to interface with WIC.

[twe]

Email sendt with attachments.

[twe]

I have tested Imatch with an old FastPictureViewer codec 1.23, and it works fine ! Tested on 2 different computers. The Nikon NEF codec 1.81 and Imatch 5 is currently a bad combination, and gives very poor performance and image quality. The Photools website states: "Please ensure that you have always installed the latest RAW codec (WIC codec) from your camera vendor's web site".  So I suppose this will be a common problem for many users, since many Imatch users are Nikon shooters
I would prefer to not have to purchase a commercial FPV codec just for Imatch to work properly Since I know that Imatch 3 has a reliable and working solution for NEFs, and exiftool in IM5 is very good at pulling out embedded previews from NEFs I hope you will find a fast and reliable and preferbly builtin solution.

[Mario]

IMatch just request the associated coded for the file format from the Windows WIC subsystem, and then uses it. If the codec does not perform, or is slow, IMatch cannot do anything about this. I cannot "call" the codec faster or in a different way.

In fact many IMatch users use the FPV codecs because a) there was no 64-bit codec from Nikon for a very long time and b) the Nikon codec has issues. If you don't want to spend money, check if the free Microsoft codec pack supports your specific camera model. Usually the MS codecs are more stable and faster than the Nikon original codec - although this may depend on the specific computer or NEF variant.

[twe]

I understand that the Nikon codec has issues and is slow and that there is nothing you can do about this. But since NEF is a very popular format I think that this issue needs to be addressed in the final release, at least with recommendations and guidelines in the helpfile and on the website.

As mentioned many times, NEF files have an embedde full resolution JPEG wich is what I want displayed in Imatch, and my question is if the use of different WIC codecs will give me slightly different image qualities (rendered ?) when images are viewed fullscreen in Imatch ? I tried the Microsoft codec, and it works, but it looked like the image was not exactly  as the JPEG extracted with exiftool ?

[sinus]

I understand that the Nikon codec has issues and is slow and that there is nothing you can do about this. But since NEF is a very popular format

You are right, I think this also.
But only to mention: I have a Nikon D80, D100, D700 and all Nefs are looking good and have no troubles, what you are describing. I guess, not all Nefs has this problem ... but of course, if we could have a "workaround" to solve it, then it would be fine.

[ChrisMatch]

As a technical person I agree with mario - it's not his fault. 
From a marketing point of view - some customers just don't care whom fault it is - it should just work.

Regarding the NEF files and the preview not allowing pixel peeping:
- I also noticed this 'missing' possibility (would be nice if possible)
- but on the other hand I didn't care much because the preview is large enough to serve my needs of initial culling  (if it passes this 'test' it gets a closer inspection within my raw converter later on).