Display of Group Level keywords

[graham1]

I have imported my own large set of hierarchical keywords, generated through years of use of Lightroom.  My group level non-exporting keywords are all in the format: [001_ACTIVITY & CONCEPTS_], to keep the headings in the order I want.

Since each is entirely within square brackets, they should be recognised as group level keywords and not included in flat keywords within the thesaurus.  But the group level keywords are included in my flat keywords in the metadata panel (as well as in the hierarchical keywords panel).  I have tried every combination of "Exclude in flat keywords", and "Group Level" (which greys out "Exclude in flat keywords") and "Use sub-elements", but it makes no difference: the group level keywords appear in Keywords as well as Hierarchical keywords.  I attach a screenshot which shows this.

The image used in this example has had its keywords added in Lightroom.  It has 4 keywords, under 3 group level headings.  Lightroom writes to an external XMP file, the relevant entries being:

<lr:hierarchicalSubject>
    <rdf:Bag>
     <rdf:li>[002_ADJECTIVES/DESCRIPTIONS_]|indoor</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>[095_PERSONAL_]|Family &amp; Friends|Family|Jasper</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>[099_YEAR TAKEN_]|2019</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>[099_YEAR TAKEN_]|December</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Bag>
   </lr:hierarchicalSubject>

In the attached screenshot, the Hierarchical keyword panel is correct.  But the Keywords panel is not, in that it includes 3 [NNN_XYZXYZ_] group level keywords.  It is treating each of the group level keywords as flat keywords in their own right (only 3 are show as flat keywords because one is used twice).

If I look at VarToy, {File.MD.XMP::dc\subject\Subject\0|count:true} tells me that there are 9 keywords, instead of 4, so the Keywords panel is treating the group level keywords as keywords, even flattened.  The number of characters is similarly reported using the group level keywords.  I have checked in the Properties panel that each is properly set as Group Level.

What am I doing wrong, or is there a bug?  I believe that for this image, the Keywords panel within Metadata should read only: "2019, December, Jasper, indoor".

Incidentally, when I import my Lightroom keywords (saved as a text file), most import as they should do, as group level or regular keywords.  But I have one hierarchy which is "[007_GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION_]|Europe|United Kingdom|England...." (continuing down to region, county, town etc.) where "United Kingdom" is imported as if it were a group level keyword, which it is not, and the Keywords editor sees all entries below "United Kingdom" as top level flat keywords rather part of a hierarchy.  This does seem like a bug - I have been able to replicate it consistently in several test catalogues.

Any help much appreciated.

Graham

[Mario]

The [ and ] is a proprietary Lr thing, it is not standardized in any way.
It does not make keywords group-level keywords in your IMatch thesaurus.

Unless you import Lr keywords with the thesaurus importer, and IMatch then converts keywords in [] or all-upper case into group-level keywords.
This depends on your settings and from which application you import thesaurus data or keyword lists.

How did you import your Lr thesaurus into IMatch?
Does the thesaurus in IMatch show the keywords as group-level keywords?

From your screen shot I would say that these are regular keywords, containing a [ and ]. Which are perfectly allowed normal characters for keywords.
Are these keywords already contained in your files? With the brackets? IMatch does not rewrite all keywords in all your files to remove the [keywords], if this is what you expect.
If Lr has written all these keywords in your files, with the [], this is how they will show up in IMatch.

If you update keywords in the Keyword Panel, IMatch updates the keywords for that file. And then it applies group-level keyword rules, flattening rules etc.
Meaning: If you add Do|Re|Mi and you have marked Do a group-level keyword, it will not be added. Just Re|Mi.

But if the file already has [Do]|Rey|Mi (because Lr has written the group-level keyword into the actual file), you will have to remove [Do] yourself in the KW panel to fix the problem.
Several ways to do this, from manually to automatically via the Metadata Mechanic App.

See Group Level for more info about group-level keywords in IMatch.

IMatch processes group-levels when you add/update keywords. They are never written to the actual file - they are only used inside IMatch for organizational purposes.

[graham1]

Thank you for, as ever, the quick and helpful reply, Mario.

But if the file already has [Do]|Rey|Mi (because Lr has written the group-level keyword into the actual file), you will have to remove [Do] yourself in the KW panel to fix the problem.
Several ways to do this, from manually to automatically via the Metadata Mechanic App.

This is the nub of it.  I imported the keywords from a text file, using the thesaurus manager, replacing what was there previously.  Most of the [_NNN_XXX_] entries were correctly recognised as group level keywords.   Lightroom, however, seems not only to create keywords such as "[_NNN_XXX_]|something", but also it includes "[_NNN_XXX_]" as a separate standalone keyword in its own right.

Having understood this, the solution then becomes simple, without the need for the Metadata Mechanic App: simply select all files, delete the limited number of standalone group level keywords, then everything displays correctly in both the Hierarchical keyword panel and the keyword panel.

Graham

[Mario]

Very good 

Lr, depending on your settings (and the version) writes flat keywords as well as hierarchical keywords. Complete or in parts.
Like IMatch. Just not as consistent.
Various Lr versions had a occasional 'issues' where keywords were messed up and jumbled, not really synchronized between flat XMP keywords and hierarchical keywords. Maybe your files were affected by one or more of these issues. Users usually won't notice anything, unless you send your files to clients or you process them with other software. Then issues like this become obvious.

For IMatch, a keyword marked as a group-level keyword is from then on treated as for organizational purposes only. IMatch organizes your thesaurus using these keywords, but never adds them to the file. When it imports keywords written by other applications, it uses group levels to find the proper place in the hierarchy for the keywords in the file. But it does not (should not!) strip keywords from the file during that process.

Which is what happened here, because stored the [keywords] in your files like any other keyword. Which is probably OK for Lr, because it knows about this and strips the keywords when it imports the files it has produced. But this scheme of course fails with other applications, which do not implement the proprietary Lr logic. Like IMatch. And probably the majority of the DAM market.

IMatch, when importing a thesaurus file, can optionally mark keywords in [] or in ALL UPPER CASE as group-level keywords. This builds the thesaurus in the proper way. But it does not affect existing keywords in your image files.

Anyway, issues like this are not uncommon and not only for Adobe products. Good that you could solve it rather easily.