Search and management of geolocation

[Yves Thomazeau]

Hello.

While managing my photos , there is a question that i am asking myself about geolocalosation.
Since all my files are gps marked, does it make sense to add keyword with town names or park labels and so on. ?
on the other hand is there an easy way to search and locate files with imatch in a precise way (let us say a town or a circle somewhere on the map) ?
What are your advices about it ?

Thanks for your answers.

[Mario]

Do you use Reverse Geocoding in IMatch? This adds the coutry name, city name and location name to each image and makes them searchable.

The IMatch Standard Categories|Image Files\Location category automatically organizes your files by country|city



This category is automatically by IMatch. You can add a "Location" level if you need that.

You can search for country, city or location names in the Filter Panel  using a Value Filter or in the File Window Search Bar when you set the option to search for Location: What to Search

Have you used the Map Panel in IMatch yet? It allows you to search for locations, to find files by drawing a shape on the map and much more.

If you create additional keywords for country, city or location is up to you. Usually it makes no sense to duplicate metadata in several tags, because it is a) redundant and  b) there are location metadata tags for a reason and we should use them.

Actually there are two sets of location data per image (see the 6. IPTC Location layout in the Metadata Panel). The location of the camera when the image was taken, and the location the image shows (which can be quite different, considering taking a photo of a building on the other side of a river).

[Yves Thomazeau]

Hello .
No location categories in my database for the moment, only gps in files.
When i try to use reverse geocoding, a windows ask me to enter a "Google Maps API key".
I have seen on youtube that it is available while filling some forms in google cloud, do i have to go through that or is there another way?
Maybe i could use another provider than google maps ?

Thank you for your answer.

[Mario]

Maybe i could use another provider than google maps ? 

IMatch supports several providers for the Map Panel and reverse geocoding.
All require a log-in or account of sorts, even the free GeoNames.org. They must protect their systems against abuse.

See API Keys for Maps and Geocoding in the IMatch help for more information about how to get API keys for the services.

[Yves Thomazeau]

Thank you for the replies.
i would like to use OSM for the map panel and reverse geocoding but in preferences for geocoding the choice is between Geonames Ici and Google maps only ... 
What is your advice ?

[Mario]

IMatch currently support reverse geocoding via GeoNames, HERE and Google. Pick the one that produces the best results for your images. HERE is very good at everything streets. Google is also good and the free monthly quote is usually sufficient for personal use. GeoNames.org is free, but might not produce the same high-quality location data HERE and Google offer. Try it first since the sigh-up is quick and easy. If the quality is not to your liking, consider a commercial service.

I have never used OSM reverse-geocoding. What are the advantages over GeoNames.org?

If you want me to consider OSM as the fourth reverse-geocoding provider, add a feature request in the feature request board. Other users can comment and like your request, which tells me if this is something a sufficient large group of users would like to have.

[Yves Thomazeau]

Hello.

It was not clear that Open Maps was not providing reverse geocoding ...
So i ve been able to have a google maps key on the very uneasy google site and i have done my first reverse geocoding.
The correct datas have been writen in metadatas but no category has been created , i must switch on something somewhere ... :-)
Another question : i have done a search in the map panel with a polygon and i find it great but i would like the to register the polygone somewhere .. is it possible?
At last for open maps i think it would be a good thing as it is an open project free and very usefull.

Thank you.

[Mario]

GeoNames.org is an open project.

Which category do you mean that was not created? The "IMatch Standard Categories|IMatch Image|Location" category uses country, city and location metadata.

When I reverse geocode a file from Frankfurt in Germany, the file is added to Germany|Frankfurt am Main|Some Location after a few seconds (the category needs to refresh). This is how it always worked and how it should work for you.

When you look at the Metadata Panel using the default layout, after a successful reverse geocoding, it should show something like this:



and the corresponding category is:

[Yves Thomazeau]

Hello.

here is an example :
The country , region and town are ok (but there is nothing in emplacement) .

But still there is no location categories :

[Yves Thomazeau]

[Mario]

Please expand (open) the blue Image Files category and below that the Location category.

[Mario]

I remembered why I did not add support for OSM-based reverse geocoding yet. It would be hard to comply with their usage policies, and of course IMatch would have to comply 100% when I decide to implement support for OSM:

https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/nominatim/

[Yves Thomazeau]

Hello.

So confused that i did not find the location on the categories tree ..
Thank you for all : it looks ok.
I can understand why OSM is hard to implement reading their rules. It seems weird as it is very often used on maps app ...
Before i end this thread can you answer the last question that i did ask about polygon search ?

Thank you for your availability.

[Mario]

You can search for files in an outline you draw in the Map Panel.
If you mean by "register" that you want to somehow "save" a polygon you did draw, there is no such feature. Else it would be documented in the IMatch Map Panel help topic. Polygon searches are usually you do ad.hoc, not repeatedly. 

[Yves Thomazeau]

there is no such feature. Polygon searches are usually you do ad.hoc, not repeatedly.

I use an app for birdwatching that has it (recorded polygon search) and i find it very useful .
Maybe you could add this feature .
I am quite slow in understanding and i have a last question (i hope!!) :
Why  location categories do not appear in keywords ?
Is there a way to do it ?
Would it be usefull?

[Jingo]

I use an app for birdwatching that has it (recorded polygon search) and i find it very useful .

I am curious which app you use for birdwatching as that is my main photography focus.

[Mario]

Maybe you could add this feature .

Add a feature request in the official feature request board here in the community.

Why  location categories do not appear in keywords ?

The location categories are Data-driven Categories created from the country, city and location metadata tags in your files dynamically. The are unrelated to keywords. Reverse geocoding fills location metadata, not keywords.

If you want IMatch to automatically create keywords when you perform reverse geocoding, configure the corresponding option under Edit > Preferences > Geo & Maps. See Create keywords from this expression.

[jch2103]

Why  location categories do not appear in keywords ?
Is there a way to do it ?
Would it be usefull?

As Mario said, it's your option whether to include location categories in keywords or not. In my case, I decided to just go with location categories, as having the information also in keywords is redundant (unless, for example, you want keywords in images you send to others). Lots of options available in IMatch!

[Mario]

I decided to just go with location categories, as having the information also in keywords is redundant (unless, for example, you want keywords in images you send to others). Lots of options available in IMatch!

This is why creating keywords during reverse geocoding possible, but optional and controllable by the user.

Different users have different needs. I also prefer not to produce redundant metadata.
But sometimes agencies or clients require to include data like camera name, author and location info in keywords. Or the online photo gallery somebody uses cannot handle location data, only keywords.

[Yves Thomazeau]

Hello.

Thank you for your answers. All is clear for me now.
I have entered my polygone recording request in the write place and hope it will be encoded.
Sincerely i wonder if it would not replace almost entirely the geo reversing in some way ...

Friendly yours.

[PandDLong]

But sometimes agencies or clients require to include data like camera name, author and location info in keywords. Or the online photo gallery somebody uses cannot handle location data, only keywords.

I share with others that have a variety of needs and capabilities.  Sometimes everything in keywords, or just location or just people/faces.

I prefer to not have redundant metadata in my files to keep it simpler - especially for changes.  I also want to keep the keywords uncrowded to make easier for me to view and edit.

I use different metadata templates to arrange the metadata including duplicating information for the different situations.  I use the iMatch functions to make a copy, apply the specific template needed and then move the "special file" to a staging area ready for sharing.

iMatch has so much power and function!

[Mario]

Thanks for making a feature request. Other users can now "like" it and comment on it. This will show us if there is an interest for such a feature.

Sincerely i wonder if it would not replace almost entirely the geo reversing in some way ...

Different users work very differently with reverse geocoding. Some don't use it at all and get by with a number of IMatch Locations which specify the typical venues, arenas, stadiums etc. they take photos. Not as flexible as a hand-drawn polygon, but in many cases a center point and radius is all that is needed to reverse geocode images without the need for an external service. Maybe that would work for you too?

I have pondered the idea to make locations more flexible over the years. Instead of defining a location via a center point and radius, it could also be a polygon. Maybe your feature request will be implemented that way (combining polygons and IMatch locations) if there is a sufficient number of users who see a need for this.

[Yves Thomazeau]

Hello.

i have found another problem    :
But first thank you for your availability.

So , i did a file reverse geo coding and validate it.
Then, i found that the location was not right and wanted to change it.
So i did the command one more time and modified the location and validated it.
I can see the change in IPTC Location created but not in IPTC Location shown (?) .
And the location categorie did not update at all : the file is still categorized with the first Location and the new location is not created at all.

So sorry to bother you one more time.

[Mario]

Did you reverse geocode locations? Created and Destination Coordinates

[Yves Thomazeau]

AS you can see i enter "etang de Bolmon" manually in the location Field but it is still "Avenue henri Fabre" in the metadata location.
The only think i notice is that when i look at "IPTC location" only , i can see "Etang de Bolmon" in "Location created" see below:



I am not in the case where there are two different GPS location in created and shown. They are exactly the same and i do not have 2 panels showing when i do a reverse geocoding.
My problem is that it seems impossible to modify manually the location field (and have a automatic category created with the new name).

[Mario]

There are many "location" tags in metadata, from IPTC to XMP. If the changes are shown as they should in the XMP IPTC Location, things look good.

Write back the file to allwo IMatch and ExifTool to synchronize changes across all metadata tags.

The Default Metadata Panel Layout uses ExifTool Composite tags, which are linked to location shown, not location created. When you change location shown, the entries in the Default layout will also change. Just checked, works. 
Also works when I change something for location shown in the reverse geocoding dialog before clicking OK.

[Yves Thomazeau]

OK it works when i follow the fisrt method ( changing the name of sublocation directly in location shown  Metadata panel) .
The second method is the one that failed repeatedly for me because there is only one field for location in the panel and it seems related to location shown only...
I must confess that i don't understand really the utility or even the meaning of having two location metadatas ..

Anyway i thank you once again for your help.

[Mario]

Look at your screen shot above.
The geocoding dialog has two sets of coordinates, one for created and one for shown. Click on the buttons to switch.
You changed created, which is not reflected in the tags you look at - these tags use shown location data.

or even the meaning of having two location metadatas ..

This is not something IMatch invented.
That's how the IPTC committee and XMP define locations. The camera standpoint can be vastly different than what the image shows.  As I said, your camera might be on one side of the river but you photograph a building on the other side of the river, 200 meters away. The IPTC requires that photographers can make that distinction when they input location data.

This is why IMatch supports image markers and target markers. And why you can use location created and location shown. Many users only use location shown, because it is not important for them. We've had mile-long discussion threads about this here in the community and what IMatch should use by default.

I have explained all that in the reverse geocoding help topic, the Map Panel help topic and elsewhere. If you plan to manually modify location data, be aware of how this works. You can also change the Default Metadata Panel layout to show Location Created instead of Location Shown (or both). Or you modify location shown, not location created.

[Yves Thomazeau]

Ok.

I think i understand now that the location created (gps and location) is where the camera stands and the shown is related to the subject.
In my case except for my smartphone photos the GPS is created when i manage my photos in the map panel so i did not understand that subtility.
it is obvious for me that the subject is the location to record.
But i can see now that i have to modify only the location shown (i did not) in reverse geocoding and then create a new category at the same time.
I am doing it at the moment and it works well.

Again Thank you.

[Mario]

it is obvious for me that the subject is the location to record.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's also confusing for me what new users ask questions about it once a year. I have to refresh my mind. I've got it backwards above, I think.

When you play a file in the Map panel, IMatch sets location created.
When you import an image which has GPS data (or XMP data), IMatch sets the location created.
This is what most users want. The Default Metadata Panel layout uses ExifTool Composite tags for GPS coordinates (created) for backwards compatibility.

When you do a reverse geocoding with a file which has only location created, this is what is used for geocoding. You don't see the two buttons you have in your screen shot. Reverse geocoding fills both the shown and created XMP Location data with the same values. You see this after running reverse geocoding in the 6 IPTC Location layout in the Metadata Panel.

When you make manual changes afterwards, note that the Default layout uses

Composite\MWG-City\City\0 and Composite\MWG-Location\Location\0 etc. tags, which are linked by ExifTool to the location shown, not created. When you make changes in to XMP::iptcExt\LocationShownCity\LocationShownCity, these changes are mirrored in Composite\MWG-City\City. Which is the tag used in the Default layout (shown is considered more important than camera standpoint) by the majority of users.

So, if you make manual changes to location, take note of which of the two sets of locations you change. For your purpose, location shown is what you want.

I suggest you work a bit with the Map panel and reverse geocoding and keep an eye on the 6. IPTC Location layout and the Default layout to see how the tags are linked and changes are mirrored. It's also explained in The Map Panel

[Yves Thomazeau]

I use an app for birdwatching that has it (recorded polygon search) and i find it very useful .

I am curious which app you use for birdwatching as that is my main photography focus.

I use this site : https://www.faune-france.org/ and the app related is this one : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.biolovision.naturalist&hl=fr