Manual Versions: Files not linking/unlinking

[Jingo]

Hi.. getting ready to create an APP that merges keywords between a Master and all Versions.  Since I do not use versioning in my database, I tried to manually create a version relationship between 3 files.  Perhaps I'm doing something incorrectly - but I do not believe it is working for me.

1 - Select 3 files in the File Window (same folder/scope)


2 - Ctrl-Shift-M to manually create a version set for the 3 files

The master shows the symbol on the image but only a "1" (expected it to show a "3")... also, only the master shows in the Version Panel.  Toggling the stack does hide the other 2 images under the Display Master..

 

3 - Select the 3 files in the File Window and Ctrl-Shift-U to remove to version set.

The master continues to show the "1", and appears in the version panel.


Log doesn't show any errors but attached for review as well.  Strange?

[Mario]

Can you please switch to the default layout where we can see the actual version icons?
How did you setup the file relation you have selected for your manual version? It must be a "manual only" set.
Show us how you have defined the set.

I use manual versions very often and they work just fine.

[Jingo]

Hi.. yes - I created it with a Create Manual Version link (Shift-Ctrl-M).  Here is the default view showing the versioned files

 

However, when I select any of the files and try to Remove the Manual Version link - it doesn't work.  When I right click the master file, the Unlink is low-lit.. when I click the versions - the option is lit - but clicking it doesn't remove the version set.. it is like the master is not actually linked correctly.

[Jingo]

fyi.. I tried the same operation on a new Imatch DB and it too would not let me see the versions in the versions panel nor can I remove the versions from the master via the Unlink command.

[thrinn]

Hi.. yes - I created it with a Create Manual Version link (Shift-Ctrl-M). 

Andy,
Mario was referring to the setting of the file relation rule. It must have the setting "Link via - Manual only". Is this the case?

 

[Mario]

The "Manual only" is not really mandatory. Just better, to avoid mixing "real" relations with manual relations.

I've just selected 3 files, Shift+Ctrl+M and created a manual version link between the files using a DNG master relation.
The focused file becomes the master.
Removed it and created a manual version link for a NEF master relation (none of the files is a NEF). Also worked.
I've created a "Manual only" relation and also used that successfully.

When I disable a relation definition (in my test, the NEF master relation) and then use this to apply a manual version relation, I get a warning about needing to enable the relation. I OK'd this and the manual relation was created.

But now I was unable to remove the manual relation link. Even after enabling the disabled relation used for the manual link. I had to do a F4,R > Rebuild to fix the problem I've created.
This was the only "issue" I could find after playing around with this.

I use manual relations often to easily container mixed sets of files for processing or metadata / category assignments. Never had an issue.

[Jingo]

Ah.. thx Mario/Thrinn - I think you found the issue.  

Since I do not use versioning - all my relations are turned off in the preferences and I didn't create a new manual link one since it let me proceed without it.  I too got the warning message about the inactive relation link when doing the manual link but just hit ok and allowed it to continue... but then could not remove the link.

Should the system allow the manual link to be created but not allow it to be removed?  Perhaps not allowing the user to hit OK with an inactive relation but force them to set up a manual link version?  

I'll set up a temp version and do the Rebuild to remove the bogus links.

Thx to you both! - Andy.

[Mario]

Should the system allow the manual link to be created but not allow it to be removed?  Perhaps not allowing the user to hit OK with an inactive relation but force them to set up a manual link version? 

I doubt this has ever been a problem. You have to a) select an inactive rule and b) deliberately ignore the warning.
And with F4,R on the folder you can easily remove the inactive manual links, in case this should ever happen. I doubt this needs work. IMatch cannot anticipate and deal with any possible user action or failure

Feel free to file a bug report if you think differently.

[Jingo]

I agree - probably not something that needs addressing.. 

My only thought is - out of the box, Imatch allows manual linking but has all default versioning profiles set to inactive.  The warning box shows after the manual link is already created so by then, the damage is already done and when you try to unlink, you cannot.

Perhaps a warning or some language added to the help will be sufficient... I read the help before trying the manual link since it had been so long since I last used versioning.  

Now.. off to set a manual version and finally code the app!

Thx again - Andy.

[Mario]

I will do that if another user reports this as a problem. So far no user ever did, hence ...
An easier way would be to not offer invalid relation rules for manual linking. I'll think about that.

[Jingo]

An easier way would be to not offer invalid relation rules for manual linking. I'll think about that.

Yes.. that makes the most sense to me as well... if no relation rules are active - low lit the manual link option.

[Mario]

I thought about that but it did not solve this particular issue!

The problem was that it was not possible to remove manual version links if the corresponding relation was disabled. This is because of the way the "remove manual version link" task detects the manual versions the selected files has.

It uses a common function in the IMatch engine which determines the relations of a file - and this function ignores inactive relations. Which is the right thing to do in 99.99% of all use cases - because this function is also used when IMatch checks for masters and versions. It makes no sense to consider inactive relations when looking for versions of a master.

So I made a new function which explicitly does not ignore inactive relations and use that in the "remove manual version link" task now.

Problem solved. Took < 10 minutes (including writing a release note for IMatch 2023), so it was probably worth it.
Not many users use manual version links (I do!), and if they do, they probably don't use deactivated relation rules. Or disable them and then try to remove a manual version link.

I made a note for a "future" IMatch version to not allow to disable relation rules. This will reduce code complexity while not limiting users (much).

[Jingo]

Thanks Mario... appreciate the fix!  

[rolandgifford]

I made a note for a "future" IMatch version to not allow to disable relation rules. This will reduce code complexity while not limiting users (much).

It may also help in a future release to include a Manual rule in the set of sample/example relation rules

I intend using manual rules part of the time and this thread has alerted me to things that I hadn't considered.

[Mario]

Manual rules are very rarely used. I've added them to support specific workflows but the majority of users should use 'real' file relations.

[thrinn]

I do use manual file relations (well, one rule only, but still) for one of my custom apps. As the App itself defines what exactly is a master and version, I don't want the IMatch automatism to interfere. Yes, it is a special case, but very helpful for me. But then, not so many users are writing their own apps...

[Jingo]

... But then, not so many users are writing their own apps...

 - attempting to write an App is how this whole thing started!  

[sinus]

Hmmm, I have to read about Manual Versions, where it could be interesting.
Never thought about this, hence never used it.

[Mario]

Manual Versions
They can be useful, if there is no other way to version files (which is pretty rare).