Suggestions for new laptop appreciated

[ben]

Hello,

i am looking for a new laptop as a replacement for my current one.
This will be my only pc/laptop to run iMatch.

I am happy about any general recommendation (models/brand).

More important are the following questions a bit specific to iMatch:
- Which features are a must-have?
- Are the CPU internal GPUs enough?


My current system has the following problems/restrictions:
- Intel CPU 6th gen (i5 6200U, two cores)
- The internal Intel GPU did never work with iMatch (Intel HD Graphics 520)
- The NVIDIA 945M graphics did work with iMatch performance wise very will, but i had/still having artefacts sometimes in the viewer, like the collection-bar clipped (i don't bother any more). 

So i am thinking about something like this:
- Intel CPU at least 11th gen or AMD equivalent
- SSD at least 1 TB
- 32 GB RAM
- 17 inch display IPS
- an extra graphics card???

I would be very thankful if someone had some good ideas.
Ben

[ben]

I still haven't chosen a new laptop (due to lack of time).
One important question I have: Do AMD CPUs work with imatch as well? I recall imatch needs some specific processor features.

[Mario]

The only special processor feature IMatch needs is AVX, which is around for a decade and supported by both Intel and AMD CPUs. I use AMD CPUs in my workstation and Intel CPUs in my secondary computer.

I'm also shopping for a new "work" notebook but it's difficult to find an affordable system that fulfills my requirements and is affordable enough. I'll wait at least until Black Friday to see if there are some specials by Lenovo, HP, Dell, ASUS or MCI.

[ben]

Ok thanks about the AMD answer.

When did the laptop companies stop to include a spare interface to add a second harddrive?
No spare interface and no DVD slot that you could replace. So no way to add a second drive. 
You get that much storage or you gotta buy a way more expensive laptop. 
So I am waiting for black friday as well

[Mario]

It's all made to very tight budgets. And for the extra money of course..
Apple is the worst, but other vendors also add a hefty surcharge for more RAM or larger SSD.

Framework laptops are cool. Easily upgradeable for users, spare parts etc.
13.5" inch screens may be sufficient for many users. The 16" framework is currently only available on pre-order, shipping next year. Unfortunately, they don't offer touch screens and I need touch for testing stuff.
I would like to, but I cannot use a framework laptop at this time :-(

[ben]

Framework laptops are cool. Easily upgradeable for users, spare parts etc.
13.5" inch screens may be sufficient for many users. The 16" framework is currently only available on pre-order, shipping next year. Unfortunately, they don't offer touch screens and I need touch for testing stuff.

That looks really interesting. I am also looking for 16'', but i don't wanna wait for next year.

One further question:
Does the intel integrated GPU Iris Xe (i7 1255U) work well with iMatch and its acceleration of the viewer?
My last intel integrated GPU "HD Graphics 520" did never really work (bought 8 years ago). I was happy to have a dedicated extra GPU.

[Mario]

(bought 8 years ago).

A lot has changed over that long period of time.

did never really work

Meaning what?
IMatch does not directly interface with the graphic card (GPU), only with Windows DirectX.
DirectX is also used for games and utilizes graphic cards via the installed driver.
Usually, this works just fine. IMatch still has one work-around for Intel GPUs in place, but I doubt this is really needed anymore these days...

I use IMatch on a very old tablet with Intel GPUs, a modern laptop with AMD GPU and my workstation with two high-end Nvidia GPUs. IMatch works just fine on all systems.

For a laptop, I would always favor long runtime and minimal noise over GPU speed.

[ben]

Meaning what?

I cannot tell any more, exactly. 
Areas left/right were clipped and/or it could only cache 1 file in the viewer. So that switching to the next image was slow.
I then changed to the nvidia gpu and since then it worked well. I did't try to update the driver, so i dont know if this would have solved the issue.

But it sounds like you have no concerns about the internal intel gpu  Iris Xe, right?

[Mario]

have no concerns about the internal intel gpu  Iris Xe, right?

If Microsoft and Intel get DirectX working right, no issues with IMatch.

[ben]

* Please do me a huge favour if you are using a laptop with Intel CPU but without dedicated graphics card (CPU GPU only)  

Questions:
Which CPU do you use?
Does it work without issues with iMatch and do you have good performance with the viewer?

Find your CPU:
You can press Windows+i to open the Settings app quickly. You can also press the Windows key, type "About" to search your Start menu for this Settings screen, and then click the "About This PC" shortcut that appears.

Why i am asking:
I am asking because i am down to two different possible laptops. One having only the internal GPU (Iris Xe graphics in i7 1255U) and another one having a dedicated GPU (GeForce RTX2050).

Thanks so much for your spare time.
Ben

[Lord_Helmchen]

Unfortunately, they don't offer touch screens and I need touch for testing stuff.

Why not take an extra portable 15" display that supports touch? Can be very handy when working at remote locations to have an 2nd but portable screen? I used such a screen when I work outside of home office. It's from it's size like a laptop and some models offer touch.

[Mario]

After an agonizing process of

a) determining my actual needs
b) getting my self up-to-date with what's current in laptop tech (processors, GPUs, SSD, RAM, screens, Wi-Fi, ...)
c) scanning all major players (Dell, Lenovo, Microsoft, HP) web sites for Black Friday rebates
d) watching many reviews on YouTube (tip: ignore reviews without hard-core benchmarks and measurements and reviews which start with unboxing )
...
x) learning that Intel has just released their Meteor Lake processor line for next year

I've finally settled on a 'mid-range' notebook for a reasonable price just now.

It has a 10 core Intel processor gen 13, 32 GB RAM (user-extendable to 64 GB), 1 TB SSD (user swappable), 16" 2560 pixel screen (no touch), a very good keyboard (very important to me), Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth, an aluminum chassis and a dedicated NVIDIA 4060 graphics card with 8 GB RAM!

It was less than 1,400€ after Black Friday rebate and (interestingly) it will replace it's predecessor from the same company, which is several generations older and worked fine for many years along two generations of workstation-grade PCs under my desk.

I've looked at the current premium offers of Dell, Lenovo, Microsoft Surface, HP. All provide nice rebates during Black Week.
Super-fast, OLD 4K screens, touch.
And there is also always something that does not fit. Only 16 RAM. Only 3200 RAM speed. Only Wi-Fi 6, no E. Only 720 pixel web cam. 1 TB SSD, soldered. RAM soldered. Slow charging.
I did not find a "perfect" fit, unless I'm prepared to spend really a lot of money.

I've finally decided not to spend 3K € on a premium notebook now, when the new 2024 generation of all major vendors will use the new Intel chips which are much faster and more efficient.

I will look again at what's available for Black Week 2024, if my current choice of laptop does not work as well as I think it will.

Why not take an extra portable 15" display that suppor

That's a very good idea indeed. I can simulate pen input easily enough with my graphics tablet. But for simulating touch and multi-touch, I can spend a few hundred bucks on such an external display. There is place for a 3rd monitor on my desk and I need this monitor only for testing, so I can pick a cheap one.

[ben]

After an agonizing process of

a) determining my actual needs
b) getting my self up-to-date with what's current in laptop tech (processors, GPUs, SSD, RAM, screens, Wi-Fi, ...)
c) scanning all major players (Dell, Lenovo, Microsoft, HP) web sites for Black Friday rebates
d) watching many reviews on YouTube (tip: ignore reviews without hard-core benchmarks and measurements and reviews which start with unboxing )
...
x) learning that Intel has just released their Meteor Lake processor line for next year

I've finally settled on a 'mid-range' notebook for a reasonable price just now.

It has a 10 core Intel processor gen 13, 32 GB RAM (user-extendable to 64 GB), 1 TB SSD (user swappable), 16" 2560 pixel screen (no touch), a very good keyboard (very important to me), Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth, an aluminum chassis and a dedicated NVIDIA 4060 graphics card with 8 GB RAM!

It was less than 1,400€ after Black Friday rebate and (interestingly) it will replace it's predecessor from the same company, which is several generations older and worked fine for many years along two generations of workstation-grade PCs under my desk.

I've looked at the current premium offers of Dell, Lenovo, Microsoft Surface, HP. All provide nice rebates during Black Week.
Super-fast, OLD 4K screens, touch.
And there is also always something that does not fit. Only 16 RAM. Only 3200 RAM speed. Only Wi-Fi 6, no E. Only 720 pixel web cam. 1 TB SSD, soldered. RAM soldered. Slow charging.
I did not find a "perfect" fit, unless I'm prepared to spend really a lot of money.

I've finally decided not to spend 3K € on a premium notebook now, when the new 2024 generation of all major vendors will use the new Intel chips which are much faster and more efficient.

I will look again at what's available for Black Week 2024, if my current choice of laptop does not work as well as I think it will.

Why not take an extra portable 15" display that suppor

That's a very good idea indeed. I can simulate pen input easily enough with my graphics tablet. But for simulating touch and multi-touch, I can spend a few hundred bucks on such an external display. There is place for a 3rd monitor on my desk and I need this monitor only for testing, so I can pick a cheap one.

Would you mind sharing which model you got?

[Mario]

I've settled for an Dell Inspiron 16 Plus, which currently ticks the (for me!) required boxes and should work for me for the next year or so. Your mileage will most likely vary. I'm sure there are similar offerings from HP and Lenovo. But I've used Dell for many years personally and professionally, so ...

I don't do image editing on it, I don't need 500 nits OLEDs, I don't need color calibration or a full RGB or Adobe color space.
I might watch YouTube videos or Prime, though.

What I do mostly is email, community work and lots and lots and lots of typing and compiling code in C++, Rust and C#. And of course IMatch development and testing. It will be nice to have a real 2560px screen again in addition to the 4K monitors I exclusively use and the 1280+ resolutions I dial in in virtual machines and containers for testing. My last laptop had 1920px resolution.

The laptop specs tell me that this should work well enough to offload a lot of work from my workstation and be mobile, which I prefer. Note that I have not worked with this particular Dell model yet, but I've had several Inspirons models in the past and they all did their job just fine.

I would've gone for an Dell XPS model or a high-end HP/Lenovo, but the Intel announcement made me switch to a short-/mid-term model instead. I need a replacement now, but I don't need high-end.

Since Intel released their new chips just days go, I think we'll see new laptop models next year around March or so. Or at whatever trade show is nearest.

Then I'll wait for several months until there is enough feedback and reviews to see which models of the big vendors are worth a look. This means, we're p'rolly around Black Friday 2024 before I will consider purchasing a new device and handing the Inspiron down in the family.

I might write a follow up once I've installed all the stuff I need and worked with it for a few weeks.

[Jingo]

We have 3 Dell Inspiron's running in our household... 2 personal and 1 work.. and they have been flawless in performance and reliability.  While not as powerful as your new one - they seem to run very well for the tasks thrown at them.

Congrats on the new system.. I'm sure you will be pleased!

[Mario]

Yup. That's what I would expect from my previous experience with Dell systems (servers, storage systems, PC's and laptops).

Looking at the top-end Dell XPS model for ~3K€ (after the substantial Black Friday discount), all the Inspiron Plus seems to be lacking is the 17" 4K OLED touch screen. And maybe its case material is slightly lower-grade Aluminium

On the other hand, the Inspiron has a 1080p web cam (the XPS has only lame 720p) and Wi-Fi 6E, which is the latest and can offer a lot more bandwidth and reach. The XPS has Wi-Fi 6 but without the important "E".

My new notebook will be delivered on Friday.

[jch2103]

My incomplete understanding is that the Inspiron models offer the benefit of being able to replace some parts (esp battery, memory, storage). It's frustrating not to be able do simple things like replace a failing battery in most laptops (and seems to be more difficult as the price increases). Part of that's a size tradeoff, but how much of a factor that is depends on your use case, especially if it involves travel. 

[Mario]

My incomplete understanding is that the Inspiron models offer the benefit of being able to replace some parts (...)

Absolutely! RAM, SSD, and Wi-Fi are easily user-changeable. Normal slots. Not soldered-on. Need more RAM? Swap the two 16GB modules to 32GB modules. Or replace the SSD with a 2 or 4TB model (which I probably will. I would have bought a 2TB version, but they don't sell one).

Usually, Dell also offers documentation and videos that explain how to open the device, how to swap parts etc.
In Germany these are called "Kundendiensthandbuch" (service manuals). And they offer a variety of parts via their web site (https://www.dell.com/en-us/dfb/shop/partsforyourdell). And of course there is a big after market with replacement parts.

If you're interested to look inside "my" Inspiron and see for yourself, check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEPZDNOKgnY (very good laptop reviews from this lady).

[Mario]

My incomplete understanding is that the Inspiron models offer the benefit of being able to replace some parts (esp battery, memory, storage). It's frustrating not to be able do simple things like replace a failing battery in most laptops (and seems to be more difficult as the price increases). Part of that's a size tradeoff, but how much of a factor that is depends on your use case, especially if it involves travel.

My new laptop was delivered today. Yay, the fun!.

The user manual contains detailed instruction on how to set the system into service mode, how to open it and how replace what Dell calls CRU's (customer replaceable units): memory, SSD, Wi-Fi card, fans, battery, screen unit, power button, network plug, touch pad etc). Very nice.

[Mario]

After spending several days with installing all the stuff on my new daily driver laptop, I have to say that I'm quite pleased with the Dell Inspiron.

It's quiet when not under load, all things work, fingerprint sensor is great, battery holds up for 4-5 hours when doing real work (and probably a full work-day with only browsing and emails). Case stays cool where your hands are (not common these days!).

A very good keyboard with a nice double-height Enter key (very important for me and probably all developers). And thanks to the 16" model and the very narrow left and right keyboard margins, the keyboard is comfortably big. Approve!

The 16" screen is great and very bright. I can run it at 50% brightness for normal work. Not profiled yet, but I don't expect any issues.

Big and responsive touch pad.

Best thing is, it compiles the entire IMatch project as fast as my four year old workstation.
Which is really impressive for a mobile and reasonable priced system system.

When I run software that utilizes the built-in NVidia GPU (in addition to the Intel GPU on board), it is as fast as the 3 year old NVidia I use in my workstation. Which is more than sufficient for a mobile system.

I don't plan to  do AI training or development on this laptop. But looking at how fast it performs with Stable Diffusion and Tensorflow / Py-Torch, that's probably an option. To beat this RTX 4060 you probably have to spend 600US$ in a graphic card alone. Plus a PC around it

And yes. IMatch runs very well on this rig.

[dkyndt]

I recently received the new XPS17.

Imatch is very fast and my XPS also does not throttle like my Precision 7540 did.

The only 'disavantage' I find about the XPS is that it does not have a numpad. The space around the keyboard is huge, and they used it to install speakers (Who offer a nice sound)

The touch screen and 4K monitor are amazing
Battery life is around 2 hours on full power, and 5-6hours on balanced mode.

The fact that it only has 4 thunderbolt charging ports (and an SD-cards reader and headphones) is actually not that bad.
You can choose what side you want to charge the laptop, and almost everything becomes usb-c anyway.