Offline files not shown in each view

[Gerd]

Hi,

I'm not sure, if this is a bug or normal!

In the Media&Folder-view files are offline-marked, but if I use the Categories-view, there not. That leads to wrong assumption, that the document is available.

Is there an option to make this visible?

Regards
Gerd

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[BenAW]

You're working with an IMAGE management system.
You can see a thumbnail or even a cached image without having the original file available.
No need for that until you start doing FILE management tasks.

If you don't want to see off-line images, just filter them out.

[Mario]

I'm not sure that I understand your report correctly.

Your folders are all marked as off-line because IMatch cannot find them on disk.
Categories cannot be off-line. Categories are stored in the database.

The file window uses an off-line indicator icon to show which files are off-line. This works in all file windows: Media & Folders, Categories, Collections, Time-line...

[sinus]

Hmm, I tried this hier: Deleted a file.

In IM5 the file is dispayed as offline, and this in alle views (Folder, Cats, Timeline ....)

Hence I cannot reproduce your result. But I am not sure, if you mean this.

[Gerd]

Hi,

where do I see, that a file is offline?

Regards
Gerd

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[JohnZeman]

where do I see, that a file is offline?

Gerd if a file is offline the thumbnail will have an icon in the upper left corner as shown in the attached screen shot.


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[Gerd]

Hmmm,

I do not see this symbol .... 

Regards
Gerd

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[Mario]

Works here.
Try to close and re-open the database.
Or refresh the Media & Folder view with <F5> after clicking in the tree.

[Gerd]

Hi Mario,

did not help! 

The first screenshot shows the online-situation.

Regards
Gerd

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[Gerd]

Tests continued ...

If I remove a folder from the tree via Win-Explorer, then I see in IM5 the offline-icon in the documents ...

Here I use a protection program (Password Folder), that prevents access to the folders and files. After a refresh in Win-Explorer, protected folders and files are no longer visible there.

But why shows in IM5 the folder-view the offline-icon and the files not? Also not after <F5> ...

Regards
Gerd

[Mario]

Here I use a protection program (Password Folder), that prevents access to the folders and files.

Aha! Never heard about such a software.

Apparently Windows returns "folder does not exist" to IMatch  when IMatch asks Windows if the folder exists.
And if IMatch asks Windows if a file exists, Windows returns "yes".

So IMatch considers the folder as off-line, but the files not.

This seems to depend on the protection software you use and how it interfaces with Windows. IMatch has to take for granted what Windows tells it about whether a folder or file exists and is accessible for the user running IMatch.

[Gerd]

Hi Mario,

today another try: IM5 started new and the folders are inaccessible (invisible), Win-Explorer (set do display hidden-directories) does not show them!

IM5 shows the directories correct with the offline-icon, but not the documents! There is no possibility to access the document!
If I double-click on the document, IM5 connect it to e.g. Powerpoint and this gives then an error-message.

Again: Why does IM5 does not show, that the document is not accessible?

Regards
Gerd

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[Mario]

To check if a file is available (a check which needs to be done very often) IMatch uses a Windows function which returns information about a file, e.g. the size, last modify date etc. This function returns FALSE when the file not exists, TRUE otherwise. If the function returns TRUE, IMatch considers the file as existing.

Not accessible is not the same as not existing. If a file exists, but the current user has no rights to open or edit it, it is still considered as existing (not as off-line).

Test: Close IMatch.
Delete one of the files.
Restart IMatch.
Does the file show up with the off-line icon?

[Gerd]

Hi Mario,

if I hide this directories with this special program and I start Win-Explorer, these directories are not shown, they are also not hidden, it likes, that these directories and files do not exist.

In IM I expect, that files from directories shown as offline, automatic are also offline.

Reghards
Gerd

[Mario]

As I said, it seems Windows can still find the files, and so IMatch does not show them as off-line.
If Windows tells IMatch "file not found", IMatch shows it as off-line. Else not.

If the strange software you use just hides the files from Windows Explorer, it apparently does not hide them from Windows. Because IMatch can still find them and hence does not consider them as off-line. This is how IMatch does things for 10 years, and it works well. I'm not keen on changing all this in order to support your special software which can hide files. Hidden files are not the same as non-existing files.

[Gerd]

Hi Mario,

only looked now at IM: I fgind it quite normal, if a program shows files as ofline, if it shows their folders as offline!

Normaly it can not be, that IM shows a folder offline and the files in this folder online! But IM5 does it!

Regards
Gerd

[Mario]

Yeah, it's strange. I guess this is caused by the strange software you use and which messes up the file functions IMatch uses to detect if a folder and a file is off-line.

Apparently Windows cannot find the folder, so IMatch reports it as off-line.
When IMatch checks the files, Windows can find them. So IMatch shows them as on-line.
I suggest you either disable the strange software you use if this is a problem for you, or you configure to also hide the files from Windows so IMatch gets back a "file does not exist" when it asks Windows for information about the file. It apparently currently does this only properly for folders, but not for files.

We are running in circles here. I guess you want me to spend time on this, installing the software you use to see how it messes with the file system routines in Windows, and then come up with some sort of work-around? I'm not keen on on changing code in IMatch that worked flawlessly for 10 years, just to add a special case for a software which hides folders but not files from the Windows file system functions. This is very special.

If you consider support for this specific feature would be useful for other users as well, please add it as a feature request. I will then look into this for a later version.

[Gerd]

Hi Mario,

you did not read correct! The folders are NOT VISIBLE by Win-Explorer and the files are also NOT VISIBLE.

If your software recognize an unvisible folder as offline but unvisible files as online, might be, also all the years before, that there is something wrong in the routine you are using, but never recognized! All other software gives me an error, if I try to access these unvisible files (because they are in the list of last used).

From my point of view it is is complete illogically to show a folder as offline, but not the files! Just only my 2 cent.....


Regards
Gerd

[Mario]

All other software gives me an error, if I try to access these unvisible files (because they are in the list of last used).

What happens when you try to open these files in IMatch via <Ctrl>+<O>. You should get an access error as well.
Same when you try to view these files in a the viewer and there are no cache images yet.

The problem is that these files are not truly unavailable, just hidden or protected. Same as when you protect files via removing the file system privileges for users. The off-line check in the file window truly checks if a file can be found in the file system.

Did you do the test I asked you above (delete/move a file in the folder in question) while IMatch is not running?
I'm sure that IMatch will show the file as off-line afterwards.

[sinus]

Tests continued ...

If I remove a folder from the tree via Win-Explorer, then I see in IM5 the offline-icon in the documents ...

So IM5 works as expected.

Here I use a protection program (Password Folder), that prevents access to the folders and files. After a refresh in Win-Explorer, protected folders and files are no longer visible there.

But why shows in IM5 the folder-view the offline-icon and the files not? Also not after <F5> ...
Regards
Gerd

So, if you use another program, what should hide folder and files, but IMatch (and some other tools too, I am sure, we would find some) can find them, in this case your program "Password-Folder" does not work very good.
It's - my opinion - like I would use a password, and some progs could find the password: then the password-program would be not good enough.

You have in your program also some options (though not many), maybe you could check there, if you could set them in another way.
If I am not wrong, your are using "Password-Folder", what one description is this:

Password Folder lets you lock files and folders so that they're not only inaccessible to other users, but also remain invisible to other Windows applications. Plus the program is really easy to use: just drag and drop the folders and files you want to protect onto the interface, or choose the appropriate option from the context menu.

Other configuration options in Password Folder include the ability to block reading and/or writing access, so that the protected files can't be read, copied, moved, deleted or modified. The Exclude list lets you filter those files you don't want to protect. Besides these, the program doesn't include any other settings.

Password Folder is simple, effective and does what it says on the tin. Users expecting a more complex security app should probably look somewhere else.

From my point of view, you cannot blame IM5 for this.
In contrary, you should ask the programmer of "Password Folder", why another program is able to see files, protected through his program "Password Folder".

If I would be in your situation, and want protect folders and files and a program could find them, then - sorry - I would detete this program, what should hide files, but does it not good enough.

[Gerd]

Hi Markus,

for me the only mystifying thing is: why shows IM5 the folder as OFFLINE and the files in this offline folder as ONLINE?

May be the fault is, that IM5 shows these folder as offline .....

[Mario]

I explained why this can happen in my initial reply.
Apparently only some Windows functions are affected by your password software, but not all.

[Gerd]

OK, let's keep it as it is ...

[hluxem]

I started a new test database after installing the latest beta. After restarting Imatch, my folders are shown offline, all files are shown online without the offline icon. None of the database tools has fixed that. I don't use any special software. Not a big deal, just strange. 


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[Mario]

A new one    

Are these folders perhaps marked as 'hidden' in the file system? You can check via the folder properties in Windows Explorer.
When you select one of the folders, what does IMatch show in the properties panel below the tree?

[hluxem]

I think I found the cause for this, my main Computer's power supply died and I used a second computer. The pictures were on the same D: drive, but a physical different hard drive.
Shouldn't the files be shown as offline too?

Heiner

[Mario]

This is the same problem as Gerds. Folder marked as off-line, files are not (as long as they exist).

When IMatch checks for a file in the file system, it does not look up the volume media serial number. It only checks if the file exists on disk. This is for performance reasons. I'll need to think about this and how to solve it without slowing down loading files into the file window.

[Mario]

I've changed the detection algorithm so it also checks if the folder is on-line and the correct media is in the drive before it checks if the file exists.
I guess the performance hit will be minimal because I added another cache.

[Gerd]

Hi Mario,

thanks!