LR image modifications

[HansEverts]

I have searched in the forum and in the help files, but I cannot find it, so here are my questions.
1) if I make editing changes (saturation, exposure, etc) in NEF files in LR, I presume they are stored in the LR catalogue and this has nothing to do with EXIF. XMP or sidecars?
2) if that is so, these editing changes will never be visible in IMatch?

Or is there a way to see NEF files with editing changes in IMatch?

[Gerd]

Hi Hans,

LR works non-destructive, all changes made to pics are saved only the LR-library. To see results in other programs you have to export the final pic.

[ChrisMatch]

Or is there a way to see NEF files with editing changes in IMatch?

and after you have exported them you can use the 'visual proxy' feature to see the result when looking at the NEF files

[HansEverts]

Thanks Gerd and Chris,

That is what I thought, but I hoped for a solution. 

The visual proxy does not change much.

[Carlo Didier]

Can LR update the embedded preview in the NEF files? Then you could see the adjustments in iMatch (and other applications).
It works with DNGs, although, with LR, you need to manually start the update, whereas ACR can automatically update the embedded previews (in DNGs).

[HansEverts]

How do you do that in LR? I have tried just about every combination, but in IMach the image shows the same.

[Gerd]

Hi,
LR does nothing with the original pic!

[ChrisMatch]

I don't know about LR - maybe there is an option to automatically generate a preview image? (This is at least what PhotoNinja does).

But I see no chance that iMatch would interpret the changes you applied in LR and do the raw conversion (that's the core function of the RAW converter).

So it seems that what you have hoped for will not come true.

[HansEverts]

That is life, thanks

[KimAbel]

All edits on a raw file in Lightroom can be stored either in the catalog or the xmp-file. Its your chioce in the settings. These edits are not visible to IM5 (I dont know if you can make a embedded preview ).

My solution is to export raw files (master) to jpg (buddy) and use this as a visual proxy for the raw file. If you are worried about storing space you can export to a small jpg file. Then I can use the filter "hide buddy files" so that only my master files are visible with the exported jpg as the preview.

Kim Abel

[JohnZeman]

It's been a few years since I've tried this but I believe if you convert your NEFs to DNG and update the DNG previews in Lightroom then IMatch should use that embedded preview so you'll see the image the same in both Lightroom and IMatch.

That was one of my reasons to convert all my Canon raws to DNG format upon import.

[BenAW]

That was one of my reasons to convert all my Canon raws to DNG format upon import.

Same here more or less. I have Pentax cameras that either give a PEF raw file or a DNG (user selectable).
I mostly shoot PEF's, and edit them in LR, and save the results as DNG.
The DNG has the raw data + the edit instructions. It also has an embedded full size JPG that has the edits applied to it, and IM can use this JPG for cache and preview etc.

[Mario]

Changes made in LR stay in LR. Only when you export a file, LR applies the virtual changes to the RAW data to produce the final image.
All RAW converters work that way - which is also the reason why all your work done on RAW files is lost when you switch to another RAW processor.

The Versioning Visual Proxy feature in IMatch 5 has been designed to work around that. When your RAW processor allows you to produce a "final" rendition of the RAW with all settings applied, you can make this file a version in IMatch, and make it the visual proxy. IMatch then makes the RAW look like the visual proxy.

Some RAW processors have such a preview feature built-in, but I don't think LR has it yet. Maybe with the next paid update.

Another solution would be the DNG format, which has been developed exactly for this purpose. All applications include a "final" JPEG preview image in the DNG file, which is used by IMatch automatically.

Only Nikon software can update Nikon NEF files. Capture updates the embedded preview image so the NEF will look like in Capture when you look at it in IMatch. But I have the impression that not all changes done to the NEF in Nikon Capture are really rendered to the JPEG - but this may depend on the version of Capture used.

The Nikon WIC codec handles apparently (?) some of the soft edits, but not all.

When you work in RAW, always remember that all changes done are virtual and proprietary to one specific application. "Soft" or "Virtual" changes are not visible for other applications, until you produce a final JPEG, TIFF, PSD or whatever from the RAW in your RAW processor. And switching the RAW processor will require you to render all files, because you will loose all virtual edits. That's what I call a genial customer lock-in feature... 

[HansEverts]

Thanks for all the explanations and suggestions.

I like John's suggestion. It would facilitate overall management to have a single DNG file with embedded JPG instead of 2 files. In addition, the DNG file with large JPG is still 1 MB smaller than the NEF file, not even counting the JPG.

There is just one inconvenience: whatever I try, IM shows the file without edits. The metadata/Cache preference options are as per the default with 'Use embedded preview" on Yes. I have tried all combinations when exporting from LR, including switching off the automatic writing to XMP files.

Any idea what I can do next?

[JohnZeman]

In Lightroom did you update the preview to 1:1 size after doing your edits?  If you don't do that the jpg preview will still show the original image.  Try double clicking the dng with Windows Explorer and see how it looks with that.

[HansEverts]

It still does not work. This is frustrating, in particular because it is probably something silly I am doing wrong.

This is what I do:
1) I edit a NEF image
2) I put preview at 1:1 and update
3) I export to DNG with medium size embedded JPG
3) I move the image into a folder scanned by IM.
4) Embedded preview settings of IM are the defaults
5) I see the unedited version of the image

Double clicking in explorer opens "Visioneuse de Windows" with the text that it cn not open DNG files.

What can I have forgotten

[BenAW]

What can I have forgotten

Do you have a WIC codec for DNG files installed?

[sinus]

I take pics in NEF.
Then I switch to LR and edit them.

Then I create in LR a jpg (or tif). Otherwise it makes for me not really sense to use a RAW-converter.

So finally I have in IM5 two images:

- a RAW (NEF)
- a jpg

First I thought also, the NEF should be displayed in IM5 in the edited version. But then I found out (for me), that IF it would be possible, I would end with two identical images: the RAW and the jpg.

This is, thanks to the version-possibilities of IM5, finally not a good option for me. I would for example never see the original image.
I like it more, to see the ORIGINAL RAW, even not cutted (cutted RAWs are visible in IM5).

So I can see, neatly side by side, the following things:

- the RAW like it came out of my camera
- the jpg (or tif psd), neatly edited in LR

It is interesting, sometimes both images are quite equal, bot sometimes they have big differences.

my 2 cents.

[HansEverts]

No Ben, I did not even know such a codec existed. It works fine now, thanks.

Sinus, that was exactly my workflow. I key worded only the JPGs.

But I do see advantages in the DNG approach and I think it is worth trying. I always comforted myself that I could always convert to DNG if necessary at the last minute, but after reading some more about it, I am not so sure anymore. Of course one never knows, and it is not the manufacturers who are going to tell you, even if they did know.

[sinus]

No Ben, I did not even know such a codec existed. It works fine now, thanks.

Sinus, that was exactly my workflow. I key worded only the JPGs.

But I do see advantages in the DNG approach and I think it is worth trying. I always comforted myself that I could always convert to DNG if necessary at the last minute, but after reading some more about it, I am not so sure anymore. Of course one never knows, and it is not the manufacturers who are going to tell you, even if they did know.

Hi HansEverts

Yep, the DNG-line is very interesting. I was almost ready to go this line ... but after reading about some troubles (and also a lot of good news) I thought again and I decided to go the sidecare - line. I like both not realy, but the xmp-sidecars-line has more advantages for me, after all.
I decided to "deal" this year with xmp-sidecars. End of this year (hmmm... I mean 2014 ) I will look back and decide for the next years.
It it not easy to make a decision... because there is not "THE" best solution out there, so we have to try out the best for our selves.
Hope, your decision (and mine also ) will be a good one.
But finally, we can always change to another solution, even if it is not very easy.

[HansEverts]

Well Markus, my first test seems to be in your favor.

I attached 3 versions of an image taken through the windscreen of a car. The one in the middle is the unedited NEF original. Left you see the JPEG version of the edited NEF and on the right the DNG version of the edited NEF. The last one lies, in terms of quality, somewhere in the middle between the 2 others. I tried a few more with more explicit colors and you are right, there is often a noticeably difference between the exported JPEG and the preview of the in the embedded JPEG.

I will continue some tests.

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