Filter field for Categories panel

Ferdinand · June 28, 2014, 07:04:47 PM

In the keywords panel, under the thesaurus, there is a filter field that really speeds up finding the correct keyword. Is it possible that the categories panel could also have such a field? The categories view already has this filter, and it would help to have it in the categories panel as well.

pajaro · June 28, 2014, 07:21:36 PM

+1

Would be very useful.

Mario · June 28, 2014, 08:06:16 PM

The Category Panel has a Find function: toolbar button or <Ctrl>+<F> while the Category Panel has the focus.
This allows you to find categories quickly.

pajaro · June 28, 2014, 09:05:55 PM

Quote from: Mario on June 28, 2014, 08:06:16 PM
This allows you to find categories quickly.

Yes, but if you have a large category tree and search for a category that appears repeatedly at different places in the tree it may take quite a long time to find what you need. For example, in my case I have a @Keyword "Czech Republic" that appears as a child category under Places, Countries, Cities, Churches, ... and several others. In this case the search function in the Keyword Panel is invaluable.

Mario · June 29, 2014, 08:10:59 AM

I think reloading the entire category tree with a filter applied takes longer than just pressing the "next" button a few times. Saving the state of the tree control for thousands of category entries in order to reset it after you switch of the filter is quite a lot of work and can take several seconds. Give it a try in the Category View, where you have such a filter.

The thesaurus list box used in the Keyword panel is much simpler than the Category tree (no states, no icons, ...) and has been designed for one purpose only. The tree control used in the Category Panel has a lot more functionality and 'state data' to maintain.

pajaro · June 29, 2014, 03:58:56 PM

Quote from: Mario on June 29, 2014, 08:10:59 AM
I think reloading the entire category tree with a filter applied takes longer than just pressing the "next" button a few times. Saving the state of the tree control for thousands of category entries in order to reset it after you switch of the filter is quite a lot of work and can take several seconds. Give it a try in the Category View, where you have such a filter.

I am afraid that I do not know which filter you mean. Maybe I am just missing something. My problem is searching in the Category Panel for a @Keyword that appears repeatedly as a child category in the category tree. The fact is that IMatch finds the @Keyword immediately but then I need to check what is the parent category. This takes time because the parent category is often located several child categories above. If the parent category is not correct I have to continue searching and the whole process has to be repeated. However, if I get just the list of all child categories where the @Keyword I am searching for appears (as in the Keyword Panel, or in the Category View when the filter field is used), the search is much faster because the @Keyword is easier to find.

Not sure if my explanation is clear...

Mario · June 29, 2014, 04:08:02 PM

I'm speaking of the Category View, not the Category Panel. The Category Panel has not the same depth of functionality as the Category View.
You speak of @Keywords. To see which keywords a file has, to edit keywords the Keyword Panel is maybe the much better alternative? I need to add/update keywords to many files fast. I never use the Category Panel for that.

Mario · June 29, 2014, 04:25:02 PM

I have added a tooltip for the next build. This tooltip shows the full category path. This should make things easier for some users.

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pajaro · June 29, 2014, 05:38:05 PM

Quote from: Mario on June 29, 2014, 04:08:02 PM
I'm speaking of the Category View, not the Category Panel.

Sorry, I missed that

. Then it all makes sense. The filter in the Category View is very good.

Quote
You speak of @Keywords. To see which keywords a file has, to edit keywords the Keyword Panel is maybe the much better alternative? I need to add/update keywords to many files fast. I never use the Category Panel for that.

Yes, this is what we have discussed here: https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=2690.0.

The feature request was for the option of having a similar filter field in the Category Panel as the one available in the Keyword Panel (or in the Category View, for that matter).

Mario · June 29, 2014, 06:44:16 PM

That I have answered above. It won't save you time, it will complicate matters and code in the Category Panel a great deal. I will wait how many users vote for this and if this is really something more than a handful of users finds "useful".

Ferdinand · June 29, 2014, 07:27:45 PM

Well I would find it useful. It's so much easier and faster to find a keyword in the keyword panel (thesaurus) compared to finding a category in the category panel.

I find the filter in the Category View reasonably fast, and I have quite a few categories, so I wasn't expecting performance issues in the Category Panel, but of course I don't understand all the code.

I'm not suggesting that this is a high priority.

Richard · June 29, 2014, 08:48:17 PM

One thing that has helped me while working in the Category Panel is to configure the panel by selecting parent categories. Thus when I am working with Where, all categories for Who, What, etc. are out of my way. Then when I use "Find" I have fewer categories as hits.

JohnZeman · June 30, 2014, 03:18:37 AM

What helps me is taking advantage of the Category Panel's ability to add subcategory views to its configuration. Basically I use the 5 W category strategy (who, what, when, where, and why). Each of those W's has a branch of its own in the category panel so I can quickly switch from assigning a "who" category" to a "what" category and so on. Never really had a need for a search field.

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Mario · June 30, 2014, 07:42:38 AM

This is an often overlooked feature of the category panel.
Maybe you can copy this into a post in the Tips & Tricks board?

Ferdinand · June 30, 2014, 08:50:56 AM

It is overlooked. But some of my 5 W's are themselves quite large and deep, and so this feature doesn't help me all that much. A filter would be better.

pajaro · June 30, 2014, 10:04:17 AM

Quote from: Ferdinand on June 30, 2014, 08:50:56 AM
It is overlooked. But some of my 5 W's are themselves quite large and deep, and so this feature doesn't help me all that much. A filter would be better.

I use a system similar to 5 W, but I too face the problem of large sub-trees where it is very hard to find something without a filter (or a search, at least) function.

DigPeter · June 30, 2014, 01:35:15 PM

+1 Ferdinand

PaulS · July 01, 2014, 01:28:23 AM

+1 to the original post.

I use the same approach as John Zeman, but I also still have deep category trees as Ferdinand and pajaro mentioned. I do not have any delay issues when using the filter in the Category view.

BanjoTom · July 02, 2014, 01:39:04 AM

Wow, I learn new things all the time from following these posts. Until John Zeman's note about adding subcategory views to the Categories panel in the form shown above, I didn't realize one could even do that! VERY helpful! Thanks for including such tips in the discussions . . . IM5 is really deep!

Mario · July 02, 2014, 08:14:40 AM

Ahem...this is also explained in the Category Panel help. It's even got pictschurs!

sinus · July 02, 2014, 10:00:34 AM

Quote from: BanjoTom on July 02, 2014, 01:39:04 AM
Wow, I learn new things all the time from following these posts. Until John Zeman's note about adding subcategory views to the Categories panel in the form shown above, I didn't realize one could even do that! VERY helpful! Thanks for including such tips in the discussions . . . IM5 is really deep!

Well, I guess, if you want be a Banjo-Master, you have also to lern some time

and read some notes or so, like here rtfm

Mario · July 02, 2014, 10:37:16 AM

I agree on the r and m part, but I oppose the f.

Richard · July 02, 2014, 11:14:05 AM

RTFM - Read The Funny Manual.

Why are you opposed to funny?

sinus · July 02, 2014, 11:35:17 AM

Quote from: Richard on July 02, 2014, 11:14:05 AM
RTFM - Read The Funny Manual.

Why are you opposed to funny?

Richard, you saved me - thanks a lot!!!

Mario, of course I meant it exactly, like Richard wrote!

Ger · July 02, 2014, 12:09:38 PM

With regards to the IMatch manual, I would propose 'fantastic' or 'fabulous'...

As stated earlier, but good to repeat once more, the manual is one of the (many) strengths of IM5.

Ger

Richard · July 02, 2014, 02:12:23 PM

QuoteI would propose 'fantastic' or 'fabulous'

I like those choices.

ColinIM · July 02, 2014, 07:59:58 PM

Quote from: Mario on July 02, 2014, 10:37:16 AM
I agree on the r and m part, but I oppose the f.

Or, as we would use in polite company, and which also applies especially to the IMatch Help:

RTFM = Read The Fine Manual

Mario · July 02, 2014, 09:05:07 PM

I have one for that:

Mario · July 05, 2014, 09:41:57 AM

I have added a filter bar to the categories panel. It shows up at the same place as the search bar, which means you can either search or filter. Should be no problem. The filter bar has the same options as the filter in the Category View. By default is uses the convenient contains mode but you can set it to starts with, ends with and even regular expressions if needed for special cases.

Since this feature got so much attention I figured that it will be welcome to many users and added it for the upcoming 5.1.6 release.

Richard · July 05, 2014, 10:54:38 AM

QuoteSince this feature got so much attention I figured that it will be welcome to many users and added it for the upcoming 5.1.6 release.

I would say that the thread got a lot of attention but only three people gave a +1 to the request. Shucks, Markus's "RTFM" post got comments by three people. While many users will benefit from the added feature, many more would benefit if they would just Read The Fine Manual. It is not like one has to read all of Help before using IMatch. But if everyone would make use of [F1] each time they use a feature for the first time many would get a whole lot more out of IMatch.

Ferdinand · July 06, 2014, 08:40:09 AM

Thank you.

BanjoTom · July 07, 2014, 03:40:58 AM

OK, I will freely and happily accept the blame for not, uh, "r'ing the fm" (reading the fabulous manual)!

Mea culpa, of course -- but though I've already spent a good deal of time using IM5, I'm at best an amateur photographer only, and find that I'm slowly discovering features that are useful to me. I promise to spend more time r-ing the fm, but I'll still stand by my final statements: I learn a lot from these forum posts, and IM5 is really deep. And I love it, even if I'm not yet the ideal user!

Richard · July 07, 2014, 05:51:08 AM

Hi Tom,

I have read the Help files with the exception of scripting and I still learn from forum posts. Indeed IMatch 5 is really deep.
I am real curious as to what you believe an ideal user is. For me it is anybody who has purchased a license to use IMatch. As opposed to the many users who will get a pirated copy and not contribute one cent to IMatch's further development.

BanjoTom · July 07, 2014, 04:06:30 PM

Hi, Richard,

Well, I am an "ideal" user only in your sense: that I have purchased IM5 (and IM3 before that) and use it almost daily -- probably not nearly to the full advantage of is capabilities -- to manage a variety of photographs and (more recently) other digital assets.

I began using IM because I was working in a university department of Orthopaedic surgery, and with many thousands of xray and other digital arthroscopic images, plus derivative Office documents (especially Powerpoint talks), I needed a tool to manage them in place (i.e., on the department's survers) and to use categories to identify individual patients' images without embedding metadata that would violate the HIPAA laws, which mandate complete patient confidentiality. And let me note that to a non-physician, any arthroscopic knee image showing an anterior cruciate ligament looks much like any other, and I had LOTS of them to deal with.

I'm also, of course, an amateur photographer on my own, and since retiring from the University I've concentrated much more on my own digital assets, which fall broadly into two groups: (1) small numbers of family photos and documents of ancestors and many more of current family and descendants, and (2) photos AND audio AND video -- comprising both oral history interviews and performance music -- of bluegrass and "old-time" musicians.

IM5 is so powerful for helping with both these types of assets, but I'm obviously far from "ideal" in my use of it. For instance, I'm still frequently and somewhat redundantly using categories and keywords and other embedded metadata for most assets, because my storage, retrieval, and use of assets is aided by all those features, and I'm still unclear about when it will serve me best to use which method. I'm also just beginning to get a handle on how best to work with Office documents and PDF files, and I would think an "ideal" user would really, deeply, understand how best to do that.

I guess, in terms of the typical users shown on the Imatch website, I most resemble Emma and Susan, though I also use features that are valuable to Paz.

"Ideal"? I don't know . . . but I have shown IMatch to a LOT of people, and except for the dedicated Apple/Mac users, everyone seems intrigued by its capabilities, insofar as I (with limited knowledge) can demonstrate them.

I'll be trying to "learn" IM5 for a long time to come, but I already know I cannot live without it! (Apologies for the long-winded reply, but . . . you asked!)

pajaro · July 17, 2014, 11:03:35 PM

Quote from: Mario on July 05, 2014, 09:41:57 AM
I have added a filter bar to the categories panel. It shows up at the same place as the search bar, which means you can either search or filter. Should be no problem. The filter bar has the same options as the filter in the Category View. By default is uses the convenient contains mode but you can set it to starts with, ends with and even regular expressions if needed for special cases.

Since this feature got so much attention I figured that it will be welcome to many users and added it for the upcoming 5.1.6 release.

Thanks, this is perfect.

Pavel.

Jingo · July 18, 2014, 04:45:45 PM

Quote from: BanjoTom on July 07, 2014, 04:06:30 PM
"Ideal"? I don't know . . . but I have shown IMatch to a LOT of people, and except for the dedicated Apple/Mac users, everyone seems intrigued by its capabilities, insofar as I (with limited knowledge) can demonstrate them.

Just to mention - I am a dedicated Apple/Mac user and now use IMatch to manage my 80,000+ image collection.. took a bit of playing around - but add this MAC user to the growing list of happy IMatch users...

BanjoTom · July 21, 2014, 03:15:12 PM

Jingo, are you running IMatch on your Mac? If so, how? Or are you managing the images from a PC that is connected to the same image server that your Mac references? I'm curious because I have several physician friends who only use Macs, and who were therefore (so I supposed) not viable IM users . . .

Ferdinand · July 22, 2014, 12:15:23 AM

A how-to would be helpful, including what not to do.

Jingo · July 22, 2014, 02:54:07 PM

Quote from: BanjoTom on July 21, 2014, 03:15:12 PM
Jingo, are you running IMatch on your Mac? If so, how? Or are you managing the images from a PC that is connected to the same image server that your Mac references? I'm curious because I have several physician friends who only use Macs, and who were therefore (so I supposed) not viable IM users . . .

Hi Tom - yes indeed.. running right on my MAC now using Parallels in coherence mode. Granted, I am just starting out with the product so haven't given it the 100% test yet.. but from my time with the trial and working with Mario to try and figure out why my metadata wasn't displaying - I think I have it all nailed down now!

Quote from: Ferdinand
A how-to would be helpful, including what not to do.

Yes.. I will put something together... it took a few trials to get things running right and I had to set things up just a certain way... but it was pretty easy once I got it running. Stay tuned for a FAQ...

Carlo Didier · July 22, 2014, 03:24:28 PM

Quote from: Ferdinand on June 30, 2014, 08:50:56 AM
It is overlooked. But some of my 5 W's are themselves quite large and deep, and so this feature doesn't help me all that much. A filter would be better.

A category panel filter would be fantastic! I was thinking about programming my own script or panel for category assignment, but this would make that probably unnecessary.
So you saved my life (or at least some time of it) with this.

Ferdinand · July 22, 2014, 03:47:28 PM

Quote from: Carlo Didier on July 22, 2014, 03:24:28 PM
So you saved my life (or at least some time of it) with this.

It was Mario, not me.

Richard · July 22, 2014, 05:15:59 PM

QuoteIt was Mario, not me.

Sure it was Mario who made it happen but it takes a request from users to initiate some ideas. So both of you had a role.

Ferdinand · July 23, 2014, 01:35:06 PM

I'm modest by nature.

Now that I've had a chance to see this feature in action, I can really say a great big THANK YOU. This is a real boost to the overall efficiency of the category assignment workflow.