IM5 & Lightroom & DNGs: Any experiences yet?

[Carlo Didier]

Hi all!

As a subscription model for software is a total no-go for me, I'll stick with Photoshop CS6 (plus some extras from Nik and OnOne ...) for the next 10-20 years probably.

That being said, to profit from new developments in raw processing without leaving the advantages (for me) of DNG behind, I'm thinking of getting Lightroom (NOT the subscription!).
I've played around a little bit with the release candidate of LR 5.2 now and I'm not really getting happy. It doesn't seem to be possible to automatically update the embedded preview in DNGs (only xmp metadata); there doesn't even seem to be a keyboard shortcut for it! And I can't get around the catalog part, which makes it cumbersome to use compared to Bridge (in my workflow, which I'm not really keen to change if that makes it more complicated).

So, my question is: is anyone out there using IM5 with Lightroom 5.x? If so (which is probable), what are your experiences? What can you recommend workflow-wise? What are, in your opinion, the advantages and caveats? Note that I use Breeze Downloader Pro to get the images from my cameras/card readers (geotagging from gpx files during import) which then automatically opens Bridge on the folder with the new images. I can't do that in Lightroom, as it seems. Also, Auto-Import in LR doesn't support including subfolders.

[JohnZeman]

Carlo I do, and I use DNGs, and Lightroom 5.2 final was just released this week.  To manually rebuild previews in Lightroom in the Library module go to Menu > Library > Previews and select the size of preview you want.

I've been using both Lightroom and IMatch since 2006 so I'm pretty comfortable with my workflow.  Essentially all I use Lightroom for though is a raw converter of my DNGs to JPGs, which are imported into my IMatch database.  The DNGs I don't manage with IMatch, in the early days I used to but then I came to the conclusion about 5 years ago that I really didn't need the DNGs in IMatch.

My general workflow which I'm very satisfied with is as follows.
Take pics, do initial culling and renaming with FastPictureViewer Pro while the photos are still on the card.
Import raw images to Lightroom, converting them to DNG during the import process.
Do final culling, assign basic location metadata including GPS with Lightroom.
Process the DNGs then export the keepers as highest quality JPGs which go into a special "Queue" folder in IMatch.   My Queue folder is where all new to IMatch images are initially placed.
At that point IMatch takes over and does everything else.

Of course what works for me may not be suitable for you or anyone else but that's the way I use the two programs.

I love the way Lightroom processes raw images, I also have CS6 but rarely use that since I can do pretty much everything I want in Lightroom.

[HansEverts]

My workflow is basically the same, except that I keep my images in NEF, in the assumption that if ever NEF becomes incompatible with DNG, I will always have a chance to convert them all.

I use LR since it began and have never had a problem with IMatch. In IM3 I would manage the JPG, and keep the NEFs separaely. I would print from LR. The only "inconvenience" of this is that the link between the JPG database and the NEF database is manual.

I imported all the NEFs into IM5, allowing me to link the NEFs to their JPGs, which is an advantage. However, there may be a disadvantage, or at least at this moment.

Sometimes I think I had so many processes ongoing that it could be hours before I had again access. In the mean time IMatch was reading metadata, updating cache or doing whatever it was doing. The NEFs were part of these processes through rescanning, refreshing, versioning, dynamic categories, etc. I have now decided to take the NEFs out again, or at least during the intense debugging phase. To have them together has (for me ) limited advantage and I hope that with keeping - for the time being - the JPGs only i simplify and streamline the database to make it more manageable.

[Gerd]

Hi,

I work with LR 5.2 final and PS CS6, but I do not use this Adobe-Special-DNG. Originals are originals and I keep them as originals, independent of JPG or RAW.
My experience with Canon-RAW is, that in critical pics Canon-DPP does a better work than ACR.

My standard-workflow is:

transfer pics from camera-card via FastStone into my notebook in date-directories and set date & time at the beginning of the pic-file-name.
These directories are read-in into LR. From here I do the post-processing to create final pics. These are saved then mostly as JPG's with a new name, e.g. xxx_LR.jpg or xxx_CS6.jpg, so I can see later, which prgram has modified the pic at the end, can also be xxx_FS_LR_CS6.jpg
I keep 1,5 year actual on my notebook. From time to time I make a backup-copy to an external harddisk_1 and these data are then read-in into my big IM-database.
Here I do my final catalogue-processes.

All pics on my external harddisk_1 are backed-up from time to time to a second harddisk_2.

Regards
Gerd

[Carlo Didier]

Thanks to everyone for your inputs.
To give you more context, here's my workflow:

1) copy GPX file from GPS or smartphone to PC if there is one

2) read images from card(s) with Breeze Downloader Pro (DP) to a temporary folder
     DP automatically adds the GPS data including location information if it has internet access, adds some metadata like copyright, etc, renames the files by my scheme and then opens Bridge with the folder containing the new images (That's a point I'd like to be able to do with Lightroom!).

3) culling images in Bridge, adjust raw conversion parameters in ACR

4) export images to DNG files with full size previews embedded (btw, the DNGs contain the original raw data, even when you don't opt to include the original file, untouched, just with additional metadata in the same file instead of a seperate xmp file and an embedded jpg preview)
4a) for some images, like holiday snapshots, I convert to jpg instead of DNG, but usually I only keep the DNGs and convert to other formats only when needed

5) import images into iMatch and categorize them

Right now, I don't see how I could switch to LR without complicating things for me. That's my problem. I'd like to switch to LR, but I don't want to complicate my workflow. Manually creating a catalog and importing images just to "develop" them is cumbersome. I have an idea how I could circumvent that, but it would be serious work and, as the french would say "une usine a gaz", something unnecessarily complicated and therefore unreliable.

The DNGs have, for me, the advantages of containing everything within a single file and , in combination with ACR or LR they can also contain a full size jpg which is in fact a developed version of the image, so that IM can use that embedded preview to show me the image as it would look if I exported it to any other format.

[Carlo Didier]

Another problem that I have is the following:
Imagine you have one or more raw files (any type) found and selected in iMatch on which you want to work. Currently, I simply right-click and tell iMatch to open them in Photoshop/ACR (via the user tools). That's simply impossible with Lightroom! Or is there a way to do that?

[Gerd]

Hi Carlo,

I have the same problem ... the only way I found, use metadata, that is used by both proghrams ...

The big disadvantage is, that you have to work with two catalogues parallel, IM5 and LR ... and it's not a quick way ...

[Carlo Didier]

Hello Gerd!
It's not the metadata that's the problem, it's the fact that I can't call LR from iMatch to open images selected in iMatch.
LR insists on being an image management system and you can't easily bypass the catalog part, as far as I know ...

[JohnZeman]

Another problem that I have is the following:
Imagine you have one or more raw files (any type) found and selected in iMatch on which you want to work. Currently, I simply right-click and tell iMatch to open them in Photoshop/ACR (via the user tools). That's simply impossible with Lightroom! Or is there a way to do that?

The only way I know to do it, and it only works one image at a time, is to copy the image name only to the clipboard then in Lightroom switch to the library module, select the catalog panel then all photographs and use the text filter on the file name.  Paste the copied filename in there and Lightroom finds that one image.  When I have several images I want to open I still have to do that one image at a time but once the image is located in Lightroom I'll add it to the Quick Collection.  When all images are in the quick collection I'll change to that collection and do my editing.

I'd also like to see a better way to do it but AFAIK Lightroom doesn't support what you and I both want.

[Carlo Didier]

I have an idea how to open files selected in iMatch, but there is a catch.

Here's how:
Create a special folder for this, named "LR Working Set" for example. In LR, create a catalog with  that (as yet empty) folder and configure LR to always open that catalog by default. In iMatch, create a script which, for all selected images, creates symbolic links in that folder and then starts Lightroom through a batch file. That batch file could then upon closing LR remove the symbolic links again. In LR, you'd just have to refresh the catalog and you'd have your images (which could all come from completely different paths/folders/drives).

I tested this manually and it works, but as I said, there is a catch: you need admin privileges to create the links (strangely enough, you don't need those privileges to remove them ...). I'm looking for a solution to circumvent that requirement as it is not advisable to run apps as administrator.

[David_H]

I tested this manually and it works, but as I said, there is a catch: you need admin privileges to create the links (strangely enough, you don't need those privileges to remove them ...). I'm looking for a solution to circumvent that requirement as it is not advisable to run apps as administrator.

Run secpol and add a suitable group to the Local Policies > User Rights Assignment > Create symbolic links entry...

[Carlo Didier]

Run secpol and add a suitable group to the Local Policies > User Rights Assignment > Create symbolic links entry...

No go. Windows 7 Home Premium -> no secpol ... spent an hour to find a way, no luck