Thumbnails for large layered TIFF and PSB images?

[mking]

Hi, How can I get Imatch to generate Thumbnails for large layered TIFF and PSB images?
It just gives me unknown image type in the log!  Txs Mike

12.19 19:11:26+ 5578 [0B20] 01  W> PTPIP::LoadThumb failed with Unknown image type.  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpif\PTPIP.cpp(3126)'
12.19 19:11:27+  906 [0B20] 01  W> PTPIP::Load failed with Unknown image type.  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpif\PTPIP.cpp(2886)'
12.19 19:11:27+  16 [0B20] 01  W> Error loading I:\Locations\England\National Trust\Winkworth\2022\mush\TIFF\_DSG1671_B&W2.psb with error 1 'Unknown image type.'  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpicore\PlugIns\ptpipip\PTPIImage.cpp(602)'
12.19 19:11:28+  875 [0B20] 01  W> PTPIP::Load failed with Unknown image type.  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpif\PTPIP.cpp(2886)'
12.19 19:11:28+    0 [0B20] 01  W> Failed to load large size, falling back to preview  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpicore\PlugIns\ptpipip\PTPIImage.cpp(507)'
12.19 19:11:29+  875 [0B20] 01  W> PTPIP::LoadThumb failed with Unknown image type.  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpif\PTPIP.cpp(3126)'
12.19 19:11:29+    0 [0B20] 01  W> Error loading I:\Locations\England\National Trust\Winkworth\2022\mush\TIFF\_DSG1671_B&W2.psb with error 1 'Unknown image type.'  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpicore\PlugIns\ptpipip\PTPIImage.cpp(602)'
12.19 19:11:44+15265 [0B20] 01  W> Exception [88982f60]  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpif\ptd2d.cpp(240)'
12.19 19:11:44+    0 [0B20] 01  W> Failed to load image with PTD2D. 88982F60 - The image is unrecognized.  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpicore\PlugIns\ptpipip\PTPIImage.cpp(494)'
12.19 19:11:44+  16 [0B20] 01  W> Error loading I:\Locations\England\National Trust\Winkworth\2022\mush\TIFF\_DSG1671_B&W2.tif with error 1 ''  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpicore\PlugIns\ptpipip\PTPIImage.cpp(602)'
12.19 19:11:45+ 1219 [0B20] 01  W> Exception [88982f60]  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpif\ptd2d.cpp(240)'
12.19 19:11:45+  15 [0B20] 01  W> Failed to load image with PTD2D. 88982F60 - The image is unrecognized.  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpicore\PlugIns\ptpipip\PTPIImage.cpp(529)'
12.19 19:11:45+    0 [0B20] 01  W> Error loading I:\Locations\England\National Trust\Winkworth\2022\mush\TIFF\_DSG1671_B&W2.tif with error 1 ''  'V:\develop\IMatch5\src\ptpicore\PlugIns\ptpipip\PTPIImage.cpp(602)'

[Mario]

In that case IMatch does not support the format.
IMatch tries several 3rd party image libraries included with IMatch and the Windows WIC codec for TIFF. All fail to handle the particular file format or variant you are using. Nothing I can do about this, sorry.

[mking]

Hi Mario,

These are standard Photoshop TIFF and PSB formats.
Is there a list somewhere of what limitations there are on TIFF and PSB formats in Imatch.
Or is it just suck and see?

To add some colour it seems that its fine with some TIFF and PSB and not with others.
Hence I am asking is there somewhere I can find the limitations?

When you went to 64bit Imatch did that remove the file size limitations or are they still there in the libraries you using?

Thanks,
Mike

[Mario]

IMatch processes a wide range of TIFF and PSB/PSD files. Adobe deliberately stopped documenting PSB and PSD files some years ago so I don't know how many variants there are now.

IMatch uses a two commercial image libraries, open source code and the official TIFF WIC codecs from Microsoft.
None of them documents how many TIFF variants or Photoshop's proprietary PSB and PSD formats they handle. Usually it just works. PSB files are very rare and TIFF usually very standard and no problem.

Since the commercial libraries, the open source TIFF implementation and the TIFF codec provided by Microsoft all fail for your TIFF files, I guess they are way outside the standard for some reason. Try to re-save them in Photoshop and disable any Adobe-only features and non-standard extensions.

As for the PSB: proprietary and closed Adobe file format. It if works it works, else it does not work.

Consider save a JPG copy of the failed PSB file in Photoshop and then configure it as a version of the PSB in IMatch and enable the Visual Proxy use. IMatch then uses the JPEG to represent the PSB.

IMatch can deal with large TIFF files. Just processed a 4GB (!) TIFF file provided by a customer last week after adding yet another fallback to IMatch 20223.5.2.

In general, if you process TIFF files with 4GB and larger, you are probably doing very special things like massive panos or maybe Astrophotography. There are highly specialized applications designed for the massive files produced by telescopes, microscopes etc. This is not necessarily something an all-purpose DAM like IMatch must be able to handle.

[mking]

Hi Mario,

I will run some tests and report back if I find info beneficial to others.

Thanks,
Mike

[mking]

OK so what I am finding so far is that the libraries IMatch is using for PSB thumbnail generation have a 4GB file size limit - clearly 32 bit libraries     Sometimes even though the file seems smaller than 4GB it won't generate a thumbnail.

Now when compressed most of my PSB files are smaller than 4GB and generate a thumbnail - BUT the killer is that it takes 10x longer to save a compressed PSB than an uncompressed (compression is single threaded) - typically 60 sec vs 6 sec. just a bit of a pain.

Note its not like I am doing anything special to generate a 4+ GB file, just saving a image with a bunch of layers.

More feedback to follow as I look closer at large TIFFs.

Mike

[Mario]

clearly 32 bit libraries  

IMatch is a 64-bit software and cannot even use 32-bit libraries. It would not link.

For TIFF files larger than 500 MB, IMatch uses the Windows WIC codec for TIFF files. The largest TIFF I have is an 8 GB panorama without compression. It loads just fine. I would never store an uncompressed TIFF myself, since the 8 GB compress down to less than 1 GB. I just keep this sucker around for tests like this.

If the WIC codec has issues with your files, IMatch will log it. Always include a ZIPped copy of the log file so I can see what WIC or the other image libraries are reporting.

[Mario]

I was pulling your leg with the 8 GB TIFF file. Sorry
Just checking.

Regular TIFF file have a 4GB file size limit (compressed or uncompressed) since TIFF internally addresses data using 32-bit pointers. There are some old implementations of TIFF that use signed 32-bit pointers, limiting the size to 2GB.

There is a TIFF variant named BigTIFF that can deal with files larger than 4GB.
But support for that variant is very limited. Photoshop refuses to produce TIFF files > 4GB, for example.

TIFF files larger than 4GB are uses in for purposes like microscopy or maybe astronomy or something. Or for special applications which need to record sensor data with 64 bit per pixel or maybe floating point number of sorts.

This is not something an app-purpose application like IMatch has to deal with. If neither the 3rd party image libraries in IMatch nor the standard TIFF WIC codec in Windows supports the TIFF variant you use, that's as good as it gets.

[mking]

So there are other gremlins at work with regard to thumbnail generation - see my other post on effect of image colour profile on IMatch TIFF/PSB/PSD image thumbnail generation...