Thumbnail generation for more file extensions

[Photon]

How to enable thumbnail generation in IMatch for more file extensions?
Currently I have installed the following tools for more support of thumbnails in Windows:

• SVG ScalableVectorGraphic, svgextension.codeplex.com (free)
• RAW and others, FastPictureViewer Codec Pack, www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/ (15 USD)

And, you won't believe it, I am using two other DAM tools in parallel to IMatch. Free MusicBee for music files. And free JPhotoTagger for ALL other non-photo multimedia and office-files. This has big benefit, because I need to use all three DAMs opened in parallel for efficient production of shows with mixed Digital-AV content. Another benefit with JPhotoTagger is, that is does support thumbnails for much more file extensions. Compared with this, IMatch does show only the windows icon (e.g. for most video files just the VLC icon) or sometimes even less (e.g. for SVG files). The reasons seems to be, that JPhotoTagger does allow quite flexible use of free public tools for thumbnail generation and a flexible modification of used batch file. The used tools are:

• ImageMagick, www.imagemagick.org (free)
• MPlayer, smplayer.sourceforge.net (free)
• DCRAW, www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/ (free)

Depending on file extension, one or another tool can be used for thumbnail generation. With this I could achieve thumbnails for practically all file extensions (even TTF, TXT and other files). This and other features of JPhotoTagger are just perfect.
Two requirements do currently block me from using only IMatch for all my multimedia files:

• There is no way to open and use different database files at the same time.
• Thumbnails are not generated for a lot of special file extensions.

Currently my Imatch v5.4.8 installation does display thumbnails for asf, avi, mov, mpg, pdf, ps, wmv, ... but not for asx, flv, mp4, rm, svg, swf, ... and much more. I understand, that Imatch thumbnails depend mainly on Windows, but may be that is not enough? I am reluctant to install bulky malware codepaks or to modify the windows registry for each file extension. Or is a tool like the free MediaPreview from babelsoft a recommended option?

For my digital photo files however IMatch is just perfect and the best DAM.

Regards, Martin

[Mario]

IMatch supports dozens of image formats with it's built-in image libraries. For RAW files it relies on WIC codecs, for all else on the thumbnail support built into Windows. If you use a format for which no WIC-codec is available and also no plug-in for Windows (e.g. Apple Video files), there is no way for IMatch to generate a thumbnail.

In order to support MP4 (Apple QuickTime) I would have to link to and probably include the Apple QuickTime library. Apple does incidentally not provide a plug-in for Windows. Since the license changes and all the legal stuff and restrictions created by Apple for developers who would like to use the Apple QuickTime SDK, changes are near zero that I ever use it.

Solutions like ImageMagik or the XnView cannot be used because of license restrictions or cost. I looked into XNView for support for selected vector formats, but after I found out that it relies on Ghostscript (like ImageMagick too) I stopped looking. I cannot use Ghostscript in IMatch because it is released under the GPL license, which prevents usage in closed source software like IMatch. There is a commercial license of Ghostscropt, but the information I have about the cost tells me that the price tag is aimed at big companies rather than single little developers.

The same license/cost issue is for most video formats. Video formats are so heavily protected by patents that it is impossible to use them in a commercial application like IMatch without very high annual royalty payments. Not a problem for Adobe or Apple or MS, but for me. I would need a specialized lawyer to handle the royalty payments and bookkeeping. This only applies to video formats not supported by a Windows codec - most are and thus are visible in IMatch. Just install the proper codec for your video format from a trustworthy source.

And you can always extract one frame, save it a s JPEG and use it as the visual proxy for your video.

[Photon]

Thank you Mario,

Regarding license cost for video formats I fully fully! agree, that Photools should not take any risk and cost. I know the codec business well. It is a mess and mainly about generating money for the patent holders.

...and you can always extract one frame, save it a s JPEG and use it as the visual proxy for your video.

This seems to be exactly the method of JPhotoTagger through ImageMagick and MPlayer. None and nothing of these tools needs to be implemented in the DAM application. The end user just has to install the tools on his own machine separately and has to set the correct paths to run them from other application. Is it possible to make the visual proxy JPEG files "hidden" in IMatch? One additional JPEG for every multimedia file in the main media folder is a lot. Or a script which generates and places the visual proxies together automatically in a subdirectory? If the individual Imatch user has to realize all the required scripting alone, it might be too complicated.

What about file extensions which are displayed correctly with good thumbnail in Windows. My Win7 PC for example does show detailed SVG thumbnails in the file manager and on the desktop, however Imatch does show only the icon of the user defined software for opening the SVG files (InkView in my case).

Another file type for example is XPS (XML Paper Specification Format). These file are displayed with correct thumbnail in Windows and also correctly in IMatch. However Imatch complained that the corresponding WIC Codec is missing, but XPS is no RAW file and the thumbnail is visible.

Of course you have to decide on your own if this thumbnail and file extension topic has priority. Certainly a lot of other IMatch users (including myself) are completely satisfied with the current file extension support.

Thanks and Regards, Martin

[Photon]

Success!
Since free MediaPreview v1.4.3 from Babelsoft received recommendations from good PC magazine CHIP and other reliable web sites I tried it. The interface of MediaPreview is very good and all file extension for video, audio and image can be selected individually. No reboot is required and thumbnail function can be checked immediately after applying the configuration. Currently I configured it only for all video formats and did not enable audio and image formats. A very similar and alternative tool which I tested is Icaros v2.2.7 from Shark007. It offers too a good black/white frame detection for video thumbnails. To my first impression both tools are reliable and do not show a difference in supported video file types.

And what a miracle, not only Windows, but also IMatch does show now much much more thumbnails. Imatch not all which are now visible in Windows, but quite a couple of them. Optionally MediaPreview is also able to generate automatically "sidecar" PNG thumbnail files with size from 64 to 256 pixels. This has nice potential to be used with IMatch versions, however I did not test this and may be it is not really required.

May be there are other tools available for just this thumbnail task. But please be very carefull with big CodecPacks like k-lite and others. They can "destroy" your system more than you like. Like other experts I never ever will use such packages, because installation overwrites existing codecs, deinstallation does not recover overwritten codecs, incompatible filters and codecs can pollute your system and much much more risk.

Regards, Martin

[Mario]

Also note that many of the codec packs offered on various sites contain old codecs and, often, malware and Trojan horses and viruses. Only install video codecs from sites and vendors you trust, check the digital signature (Windows Explorer > Properties...) to ensure the origin is right etc.

Help other users: Write a short how-to in the General section of your Tips & Tricks board: https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?board=44.0. This way other users can easily find this info, in case they have the same problem.

[jch2103]

To reiterate Mario's point about security, I've had the Shark007 Advanced Codec (which includes Icaros, as noted by Photon) on one computer for a while. I just tried to update the codec pack via Windows Programs. That took me to the Shark007 web page, which directed me to the MajorGeeks download site. When I tried to download the update, Chrome blocked it as unsafe. When I also tried via FireFox, Norton blocked it as too new.

As had been discussed on the Forum several times, many (most? all?) 'shareware' sites bundle programs with various crapware, etc. A 'good' site will bundle in such a way that the user can _carefully_ choose not to install the 'extras', but this step is all too easy to overlook. I'm glad to see Chrome has cranked up security lately, but that leaves me wondering if there's anywhere one can safely download codecs such as described by Photon. (I use the paid-for FastPicureViewer codec, but it doesn't address these other types of files).

[Mario]

You have to differentiate between WIC codecs and video/audio codecs.

There are only the major camera vendors, Adobe and FPV offering WIC codecs for download. These are trustworthy sources, if you download for the original site. For a list of sites, see WIC Support and Codec Availability in the IMatch knowledge base.

As for the various video and audio codecs which float around in the wild, I would be more careful. Especially when being offered from various web sites or in form of codec packs (as you mentioned). Best to use established and renowned forums to ask for reliable codecs and download sites.

[kiwilink]

I am sharing pictures and videos with family members via the ICLOUD (using Iphones) and Apple for some reason takes a video I shoot with my phone (in .MOV format) and changes the format to a .Mp4 when I share the video using ICLOUD and shared libraries.  I tried to bring in hundreds of small videos into IMATCH and the thumbnails are created with the .Mov videos but not the hundreds that came from the shared ICLOUD (.MP4).  I searched the Discussion Board and saw this thread and four others.  I wanted to ask if anyone had found a solution to this issue.  I did not want to install any Codecs that would hurt my current programs.  I opened up the App Panel so I can see what the video is but with hundreds of these it would be nice to see the thumbnail within IMATCH.  Just curious if anyone is doing this.  I could grab all the family Iphones and download the original movies but family members live in different parts of the country and some are not computer savy enough to dropbox them to me.

As Mario pointed out, the log does write failure messages (see below).  If anyone is doing this and has a suggestion let me know.

Thanks!!

P.S.  I did rename the extension of a few of these videos from .MP4 to .Mov and did a rescan in IMATCH and the thumbnail created fine and the video played in the IMATCH App Panel.  Can I do this without other problems to the video (just changing the extension)?


EUQH::Load(1.1) failed for P:\Pictures\MyImatchPics\IphonePics\Movies\01585bca5b74b2cce15c24e8eaa7ab553ce896dfb0.mp4 (8/'The specified module could not be found.') with 0 x 0
01.13 11:15:47+    0 [0C74] 10  M>                > 15 PTPIMultiMedia::LoadFile  'PTPIMultiMedia.cpp(229)'
01.13 11:15:47+    0 [0C74] 10  M>                < 15 PTPIMultiMedia::LoadFile
01.13 11:15:47+    0 [0C74] 10  I>               EUQH::Load(2) failed for P:\Pictures\MyImatchPics\IphonePics\Movies\01585bca5b74b2cce15c24e8eaa7ab553ce896dfb0.mp4 (8/'The specified module could not be found.') with 0 x 0
01.13 11:15:47+    0 [0C74] 10  I>               EUQH: Time for file (87687) 15ms
01.13 11:15:47+   16 [0F04] 10  I>               EUQH: Calculate CRC for file P:\Pictures\MyImatchPics\IphonePics\Movies\016ac5a6097ae2a8f76b7e9f0b0eceb0e9904baefa.mp4 in 16ms
01.13 11:15:47+    0 [0F04] 10  M>                > 15 PTPIMultiMedia::LoadFile  'PTPIMultiMedia.cpp(229)'
01.13 11:15:47+    0 [0F04] 10  M>                < 15 PTPIMultiMedia::LoadFile

[Mario]

IMatch uses the built-in thumbnail services in Windows for most video formats. Windows relies on codecs provided by 3rd party vendors. The MP4 format is an Apple format and no support for it is included in Windows.

If you also want to see thumbnails for your images in Windows Explorer, a solution like the free MediaPreview may be useful:

http://babelsoft.net/products.htm#en

After installing this, force an update of the videos in IMatch and IMatch will pick up the thumbnails.

I personally will not attempt to directly access video files with IMatch. Video files are a patent minefield, riddled with patents by the big vendors (Apple, Adobe, Sony, Microsoft etc.).

I cannot even afford the specialized lawyer who will setup a contact between me and the MPEG group, under which I would be allowed to access video files directly. There are exceptions for free software, e.g., VLan or the cool Kodi software, but IMatch is considered commercial and thus I would have to pay (steep!) annual license fees.

I know that several IMatch users had good success with MediaPreview.

[kiwilink]

Mario:

Thanks for the great explanation.  I'm running Windows 7 Professional (64 bit) and I can see the thumbnails in Widows Explorer (see 1st attachment)  - just not in IMATCH (see 2nd attachment).  If I can see them in Windows does that mean I should see them in IMATCH?

Mike

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

Generally yes. But then, no.

I would need to a see a log file in Debug mode from a session where you used a forced rescan of one of these files. The log file will show me the error message returned by the Windows thumbnail service.

Windows 7 is quite old and what works on more recent versions may fail on the older systems. Support for video format was always a bit shaky on Windows 7. Basically IMatch calls a Windows function "GetMeAThumbnail" and if this function returns successfully, IMatch stores the returned image as the thumbnail for your file. IMatch cannot influence the result and there are no options either.

[kiwilink]

Mario:

Thanks for the quick reply!  I just sent you an email message with the log file in Debug mode (I turned on DeBug logging and then I hit CNTRL/Shift F5 and chose "Force Update").  I hope this was what you requested.

If you think I would benefit as a IMATCH User to go to Windows 10 I can do that.  I was holding off on upgrading to Windows 10 because I did not want to impact IMATCH and a few other apps I have but if this will get me the thumbnails I would consider doing it!

Mike

[Mario]

The error message returned by Windows on your system is 'The specified module could not be found.'
Looks like no codec is installed which handles the format, or Windows is not finding it or something like that.
You can send me a sample MP4 file and I can test it here.

[kiwilink]

Mario:

Thanks for the help.  I just sent you one of the mp4's.  I just checked my IMATCH system and none of the .mp4's show a thumbnail but they show up in windows explorer. I have sent you an email that lists the Codecs on my machine according to Windows Media Player.
Thanks!

Mike

[Mario]

As I wrote in my reply, the video file shows fine in IMatch on my system (W10 without any extra codecs installed).

[kiwilink]

Hi Mario!

OK.  I will upgrade to Window 10 right now.

Mike

[kiwilink]

Hi Mario!

I just finished upgrading to Windows 10 and still no thumbnails for the .mp4 files.  Any other ideas?  I did hit Shft/Cntrl F5 and chose force update.

I copied one of the .MP4 videos and just renamed the extension to .Mov and this worked.  I looked at the Metadata and I did not see anything change so would this be a bad idea to just rename the extension to .Mov?

Mike

[jch2103]

As I wrote in my reply, the video file shows fine in IMatch on my system (W10 without any extra codecs installed).

I checked my laptop for .mp4 files, and ran WIC diagnostics on them. I have the FastPictureViewer Codec Pack installed, but WIC Diagnostics reports (see attached):

Testing file 'C:\imatch5beta\Pictures\Mobile Photos\2012-01-28_17-58-36_144.mp4'
   Thumbnail: Codec ''
      (CreateDecoderFromStream failed (88982F50 The component cannot be found.).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.
   Preview: Codec ''
      (CreateDecoderFromStream failed (88982F50 The component cannot be found.).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.
   Full resolution: Codec ''
      (CreateDecoderFromStream failed (88982F50 The component cannot be found.).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.

RESULT: It looks like no WIC codec is installed which can handle this file.

Nevertheless, the files all show thumbnails. So I assume there's something in the Win 10 install that does it. Or, perhaps the fact that I have QuickTime installed on the laptop?


[attachment deleted by admin]

[kiwilink]

JCH2103:

Thanks for the reply.  I made sure I was using the latest Quicktime and I am (7.7.9).  I ran WIC diagnostics and I attached the results.  My result looks like yours ("No WIC Codec installed).

So you see the thumbnails within IMATCH?  I did not want to install a CODEC unless I had to because other programs I have are running and I know in the past I installed a Codec (K-Lite) years ago and it caused lots of problems with my system.  As I mentioned, I'm seeing the thumbnails (now in Windows 10 explorer but not in IMATCH).

Thanks for the reply!

Mike








[attachment deleted by admin]

[jch2103]

So you see the thumbnails within IMATCH?  I did not want to install a CODEC unless I had to because other programs I have are running and I know in the past I installed a Codec (K-Lite) years ago and it caused lots of problems with my system.  As I mentioned, I'm seeing the thumbnails (now in Windows 10 explorer but not in IMATCH).

Yes, I can see the .MP$ thumbnails (including on my desktop, where I recently removed QuickTime!). I don't know why I (and Mario) can see the thumbnails and you can't, but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with installed codecs (at least WIC Diagnostics doesn't suggest that). I do also see thumbnails for .MOV files.

I share your concerns about codecs (see my comment above about Shark007); it seems too many of them include unwanted/harmful 'extras'. As you can see from my attachment above, I use the Fast Picture Viewer Codec as do a lot of other users here, but it doesn't address most AV file types, including .MP4.

[Mario]

WIC codecs are not used for video files AFAIK. I have no codec for MP4 installed anyway.
I don't have QuickTime installed on my Windows 10 Pro system.

[kiwilink]

Mario:

If I change the extension from .mp4 to .Mov do you think that would do any harm to the files?

Mike

[Mario]

Why would you do that?
MP4 is a container format which can handle many different video formats.

[kiwilink]

When I change the extension to .Mov and then rescan I can see the thumbnails within IMATCH.  I am trying to manage around 700 small IPhone videos.  When I renamed the extension and then put them next to each other within IMATCH, the Metadata looked the same.  I don't know any other way to make the thumbnails show up in IMATCH.

Mike

[Mario]

Strange. MOV is an old Apple format, MP4 is the current format. A MP4 file can contain a MOV data stream, though.
I have no idea why generating thumbnails of MP4 files on your systrem, but works on mine and apparently other user's PC's as well.
As I wrote in my email, thumbnail generation in Windows is a blackbox and generally just works (at least for common video formats).

Maybe some of these links provide additional ideas about what you could try:

https://www.google.de/#q=windows+10+explorer+mp4+thumbnail

[kiwilink]

Mario:

Based on research, I went into windows 10 and deleted all of the cache icons and let the system rebuild them.  No change.  I can see the thumbnails of .mp4 files in Window 10 Windows Explorer but not in IMATCH. 

If a few others could open IMATCH and see if their .MP4 thumbnails are showing that would be good.  I'm at a loss as to my next step.

Mario, can you send me via email one of your .MP4's that work within IMATCH so I can try it on my system?  I downloaded two .MP4 files from the web and tried them and they did not work either.  I have attached the area of the log where it tried to process them.

Mike


Here is what I did to reset the icons.

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5645-icon-cache-rebuild-windows-10-a.html



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

Mario, can you send me via email one of your .MP4's that work within IMATCH so I can try it on my system?

I tried the one you've sent to me by email. it worked.

[kiwilink]

Mario:

I was looking in the File Formats under Preferences (see attached) and it says MP4(x;rw).  Would this have anything that could be related to my machine?  I used Xilisoft and tried converting the .Mov file to many different .MP4 files such as H264, etc. and still no luck.  I'll give up if you have no other suggestions.  Thanks for all the trying...

Mike

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

These are the default settings. The x,r,w etc. just tell you whether or not ExifTool can read/write data or embed XMP.

Do you still get the same W> warning message in the log, about a component not found?

[kiwilink]

Mario:

When I hit CNTRL/SHFT F5 to force a rescan of one of the .MP4 files I see this in the log.

Community Administrator: Logfile data removed and moved into an text file and attached.
PLEASE DO NOT copy/paste your log files into your posts. This fills the community search engine with junk, and makes it less effective for all other community members.




[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

"The specified module could not be found" is the same message as returned. This is a typical Microsoft error message. I wonder how hard it would be to include the name of the missing module so we would know more...

[PaulS]

I have only one MP4 file and it shows the thumbnail properly in both IMatch and Windows Explorer (Windows 10 with no special codecs installed).

[Mario]

I just tried on a fresh Windows 10 Install, without any other software (only all Windows 10 updates installed). All mP4 files (~ 20) I have work and show thumbnails in IMatch.

[kiwilink]

Mario/PaulS/JCH2103:

Thanks guys for trying to help me.  I just moved everything to a Laptop and all the MP4 icons are showing there so I don't know why it won't show up here on my system but it won't. 

I have a golf swing application I've used for years and the developer made a change to my system once.  I doubt it had anything to do with it but here is what he said he did:

   "It was actually the MainConcept Color Converter that was causing the issue.  I unregistered it.  The change I made was to use the standard color converter when ever a MOV file is opened."

Mario, this is greek to me but is there any chance this would cause my issue?  As you know, I just upgraded to Windows 10 and what he did was back when I had Windows 7.  I'm out of ideas.

Mike

[Mario]

Maybe it's a broken codec of some sort, or an application you have installed that breaks the thumbnail services in Windows.
Many potential reasons. Not all of which can be solved by upgrading to W10, because this will keep most of the junk that has accumulated over time...
A fresh Windows install, from scratch, get's rid of such issues usually. Depending on how many applications you have installed etc. this may cause some work, though.

[kiwilink]

Thanks for all of the help.  I really do appreciate it a lot. 

The only thing that puzzles me is that I can see all of the thumbnails within Windows Explorer. 

Thanks again for all of the help.

Mike

[kiwilink]

Mario:

After an all day research I came across a program called Icaraos that is supposed to fix thumbnail issues.  I ran it and now IMATCH is picking up all of these icons!!!!!!!

http://www.majorgeeks.com/mg/getmirror/icaros,1.html


Mario, I am not sure exactly what this program did but had something to do with resetting registrations.  Do you think I did anything wrong that would have hurt me in other ways?    Below is an extract of the IMATCH log now after I forced a rescan

ADMIN: Log file data removed.

[Mario]

PLEASE do not copy/paste logfile data into your posts. Always attach them. Thank you.
See my notices in red above.,

[Mario]

I have never heard about this software so I cannot comment.
As I wrote near the top of this thread, a tool like MediaPreview is usually the solution. Icaros is apparently something similar.

[Photon]

To my knowledge there are at least five good tools available for windows thumbnail generation.

• FastPictureViewerCodec FPVC (10 USD), www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs
• Icaros (free), www.shark007.net/tools.html
• MediaPreview (free), www.babelsoft.net/products.htm
• MysticThumbs (30 USD), www.mysticcoder.net/MysticThumbs.html
• SageThumbs (free) www.cherubicsoft.com/en/projects/sagethumbs and www.sourceforge.net/projects/sagethumbs

As written in my previous postings, I am using FPVC together with MediaPreview, which is a free and perfect tool. MediaPreview includes an intelligent video thumbnail generation without the usual white or black frames from the beginning of most video files. I tested also the similar free version of Icaros, but my impression is, that this tool has less configuration options. And I received information about photo professionals, who are satisfied with the 30 USD tool MysticThumbs.

Imatch and other windows software can take big benefit from these tools. However not always for all files in the same way as in the windows filemanager. And you have to make your own decision based on your specific requirement for video, photo, raw, graphic and other files. On top you might need additional tools for some specific file extensions with SVG, XPS, JPEG2000, ... (I use a couple of such tools).

I think that Imatch with Mario should NOT invest too much time and any money for sophisticated thumbnail support. There is a good reason that separate tools are existing and the license conditions for video and other file formats can be a big legal and financial challenge. And a final warning: The usage of such tools and any combination is not without risk and e.g. file extension conflicts can result in trouble.

Regards, Martin

[kiwilink]

Photon and Mario:

Thanks for all the help.  I am now able to see all of my .MP4 files within IMATCH which is really great since I have hundreds.  Its a lot easier to manage them within IMATCH. 

Photon, thanks for the list and explanation.  Your last sentence makes me wonder if I did the right thing (installing Icaros) but I could find no other way to view the thumbnails.

My last question would be this.  I assume that Icaros must now be doing (or did) something to allow me to see the thumbnails.  if I now uninstall Icaros or click on "Deactivate" do you think I will lose the icons within IMATCH again?   

Thanks again for all the help!

Mike

[Photon]

Hello Mike,

if I remember well you can fill-up and clear the thumbnail cache with most of the tools.  From my experience there is no risk, that something in Windows is destroyed. Just deactivate or uninstall what you do not like. You only have to be patient, because sometimes changes are not immediately visible in the thumbnails of windows and software. The generation of thumbnails might take some time.

If necessary you could also use one tool for image thumbnails and another one for video thumbnails. I have done this with FPVC for image files and with MediaPreview for video files. I have disabled audio file thumbnails completely. However I selected user defined image file extensions in MediaPreview for a couple of file extensions (like djvu, iiq, j2c, jp2, jpc, jpf, jpm, jpx) which are apparently not supported in FPVC. With MediaPreview you have the nice option for live testing of thumbnail generation. Either visible in the tool or exported to a file with user selected pixel dimensions from 64x64 to 256x256.

Note, that some identical file extensions can exist for different content (e.g. AVI and MP4 for video and/or audio files). This because some file extension do not represent a codec, but a container with infinite options for embedded content (various and multiple codecs). And if your windows system does not support a codec, you will often not see a thumbnail and of course not see/hear the content.

Regards, Martin

[kiwilink]

Photon (Martin)

Thank you so much for the response.  I will heed your advice and I really appreciate you taking the time to respond!!!

Thanks again!

Mike