Tag Selector - Groups User Interface

[jch2103]

When one first begins to use the Tag Selector, the Groups are not populated, but after the first search the highest alpha-sorted Group name is highlighted  by default. Based on my personal experience and post 854, this makes it difficult for new users to find certain tags. For example, if the exif group is highlighted, one can't search for xmp or MWG tags (because they're not part of exif). This can make the user think those tags aren't available in IMatch.

Perhaps the default should be for the Group box to be left empty by default, instead of showing the top alpha-sorted value? That way a full search would always obviously be available, while the drop-down values would also be available for a narrower search.



ps -
At the risk of making two requests under one topic, there should be a way to delete an entry in the Group list. One time I accidentally hit Enter after typing in one character ('m' instead of 'mwg') and now my mistake persists on the list.

[Mammut]

As I recall, there were 4 items in that combo box when I started to use IMatch yesterday: iptc, imatch, xmp and exif.
I don't know how many times I switched these things in the Metadata Panel before I found the Tag Selector window, but the list wasn't empty when I got there the first time.

The list remained empty since I deleted them tonight.

I don't know what is the best solution.

It could be empty, as you said. (But I think that not every user speaks the metadata language, so a few people wouldn't know what to type there.)
Or there could be all available group.
Or there could be an "all other" item besides the most used group names.

[Mario]

Most users will only ever use the Standard tags.

The tag selector dialog has four default groups which are filled into the group combo box when IMatch is installed fresh. This is to give the user a hint what to type there. Since the combo box is of the "you can enter text" type (which looks different from a selection-only combo box) I assume that a user finds out that he can type in the name he's looking for. If a user has never heard about tag groups or tag names before, he is at the wrong place anyway.

Accessing individual tags is considered an advanced feature, barely something a user does on his first day.  I just expect that a user presses <F1> when he cannot find what he is looking for in the tag selector. Or posts a question.

You cannot make it right for every user. So far it apparently has worked well. I have changed the corresponding help topic a bit to make it more clear that you are actually supposed to type the name of the group you're looking for into the group search field (or the tag search field). This should be OK.

[Mammut]

"If a user has never heard about tag groups or tag names before, he is at the wrong place anyway. "

Well, I disagree, some people just like to organize their images without the terminologies. In example I have a hard time sometimes when I need to find things because I'm just a hobby photographer and collector. But I have a lot of images (and audios, videos, books, magazines, comics, etc.) and I'd like to organize them, so I bought the program. That's all.
I knew about iptc and xmp, of course. But I never heard of mwg before, so I didn't know that that's where I can find Picasa's names, I found this info on this forum (and I think most buyers will not search forums). Am I at the wrong place because of this?

[Mario]

Using Picasas proprietary XMP extensions (or the later introduced metadata working group tags) is supported by IMatch. But I would definitely consider this an advanced usage. A user should at least read about how IMatch organizes and presents metadata, which also introduces the terms group and tag. Once this minimal info has been understood, the Tag Selector dialog is not that challenging anymore.

A typical question would be: How can I display the Google Picasa face and region metadata. Or "How do I display the metadata Picasa stores in my images". Very hard to answer such specific questions in a general help file.

[Mammut]

Picasa is just one thing, I think there could be more extreme examples. And yes, it's advanced in a way, you're right,  but at the same time it's basic in other way: access another program's data.

Let's hope that the fix in the help file is enough.

Although I still think that a special "other groups" item in the list would be a better and more intuitive solution, but it's just me.

[Mario]

Other would cover what, exactly? All groups not yet used? Or all groups? Or all groups except iptc,exif,xmp,gps?
Simply erasing the group filter has the same effect.

[Mammut]

All groups except those which are already in the combo box (with fresh install these are the default groups: xmp, iptc, exif, imatch). Later a user can add other groups to the list, so they are added to the exception.

That way all (even amateur) users could find right away what they need, even without the help file, and maybe never need to delete the contents of the list (and later remember to rebuild again) all the time when they need some exotic group which they don't know at first, but it's possible that they could find it if they see it on a list.
If they find it, they can add the group to the combo list, so the program will be more clever, and the big "other" list will be more faster with time.

This is a DAM so it supports a lot of different file types, and all those formats came from another programs. You need to access those programs' data. As you said, it's hard to answer such specific questions, and I agree, I think it's impossible to answer all of them.
But I think this way it would be a little easier to find things.

[BenAW]

Would it be possible to have an empty line in the Group Selector fields?
Then every time the Tag selector is opened the Group selector would be empty, and you have to select one of the groups on purpose.

[Mario]

I just noticed that the group/tag selectors do not restore the 'empty' selection. Instead the group falls back to 'exif'.   
A left-over from the early tests. I have removed this for build 116.
When you now delete the group filter to see all groups, this setting is restored as well when you next open the Tag Selector dialog.

This also means that for a new installation, the default will be no group filter so a user sees all groups. The group and tag filter combo boxes contain a set of default filters as before. I have added MWG to the default group filers as well, plus Nikon, Canon, etc.

[sinus]

This also means that for a new installation, the default will be no group filter so a user sees all groups. The group and tag filter combo boxes contain a set of default filters as before. I have added MWG to the default group filers as well, plus Nikon, Canon, etc.

Very good.

[jch2103]

I just noticed that the group/tag selectors do not restore the 'empty' selection. Instead the group falls back to 'exif'.   
A left-over from the early tests. I have removed this for build 116.

Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for.
I can't speak for others, but when I search for tags, I'm usually looking for tags specifically, rather than knowing first what group they're in.