Importer/Downloader

[Menace]

Edit:  The reasons why the feature is needed.

1. Reason: Instead of two Software, one software for the key features.
2. Reason: A powerful downloader, which include creating subfolder by date of make the photo; renaming; tagging in one step.

[picolo]

You would get my vote

[Richard]

Since we can also reply to a Poll it strikes me that feature requests should include a Poll. A feature request should also contain the reasons why the feature is needed.

[Menace]

A feature request should also contain the reasons why the feature is needed.

I edited my posting. You mean something like this?

Should it be a standard-Poll? And when yes, which are the correct english terms/words to make a smart poll, which fits all requests?

[picolo]

Since this is a new forum:
I would like to quote myself. (It's not meant as a crossposting)

The reason why I am an advocate of an integrated Downloader is most because I am not a fan of having to use a different software for every single step I do.

DAM starts to me at the very first moment my memory card or camera is connected to my computer. There I want to select the images I wish to import into my DAM-Software. Esp. with those huge files modern high resolution cameras produce nowadays.

I use metadata to rename my files...
I add metadata like Copyright info, contact info, project name , and a project related keyword that will be converted to a category.

I do mirror the untouched but renamed file to a backup drive etc. etc. etc.

A very important step: I want the files verified...

And I think that is something my DAM should do it for me, right from the beginning.

A integrated Downloader can be a huge timesafer too, in particular when you on the road and don't have a lot of time!
On Click and let it work... DONE! Second step when I have time the finetuning can start.

[RainerG]

I use 'Amok Exif Sorter' to copy, generate subfolders and renaming the pics.

[Mario]

The Renamer in IMatch 5 (successor of the Smart Rename in IMatch 3) can move, copy and rename files, create sub-folders, build file names and folder names using metadata, absolute and relative folder names and much more. See the IMatch 5 Help File for details.

[habanr]

I've skimmed through Renamer help, but I have no glue, how to interactively enter a text e.g. Job name to be used during rename.
Now I use DownloaderPro and my steps are:

• Insert card to reader
• Ctrl+J in DownloaderPro to enter a job name
• download button

How this simple senario could be reproduced using Renamer...

[meyersoft]

I also use Downloader Pro and do not really need this feature inside imatch.
Of course this could be nice, but I would not fill imatch with features that are not close-related to its main purpose.

[Mario]

There is a special Project Code step in the Renamer.
When you use this step, the Renamer will prompt you to insert the project code when you run it.



Just search the Rename help topic for Project Code (using <Ctrl>+<F>). There is separate section for it. Or click on the table of contents at the top to unfold it, and then click on the Project Codes headline.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Richard]

1. Reason: Instead of two Software, one software for the key features.

I have seen applications that tried to do everything. The most common result is that the application does nothing well. IMatch 5 is feature rich as it is but it is also complex. In my opinion, Mario should concentrate on adding features which are unique. Not trying to copy what is already done well by another application.  IMatch 3 has the Image Editor which I make use of and would like to have in IMatch 5 but I will not ask for it. There are many image editors I can pick from and Mario has better things to do than develop another one.

[Mario]

I've added the image editor in old times because there was nothing cheap and usable available. You either had to buy Photoshop or spend at least 150 US$ to get an entry-level image editor. Now we get semi-pro quality image editors for cheap, or full-blown software like GIMP even for free. Or your hand over yourself and buy into the Adobe Cloud 

But of course there are many features which could be added to IMatch 5. IMatch 5 uses a complete new framework which will be good for many years. It is very extensible and 'fresh', which allows me to add new stuff quickly. I plan for rather short update cycles once IMatch 5 is released - which allows me to ship new features every other month or so.

I will not again add an image editor. But specialized functionality like a downloader/ingest module, or a crop feature as an addition to the Batch Processor is exactly the type of feature requests I want to see here.

And if there is a special function you like in the IMatch 3 image editor and which allows you to process your images faster, let me know. Such a feature can also be added, either as a separate command or as a scripting method.

[Menace]

I have seen applications that tried to do everything. The most common result is that the application does nothing well.

I see it in the same way; that's why I prefer using IMatch and Capture One instead of Lightroom.

But I don't expect in a good DAM-Software doing all perfect tool, but a sophisticated, smart downloader is -in my opinion- a part of a DAM-Workflow and will fit (?) perfect to the rest of the "smart" IMatch. When I have RAW-Files, I always use Capture One. Not perfect but good enough. 

[sinus]

I have seen applications that tried to do everything. The most common result is that the application does nothing well.

I see it in the same way; that's why I prefer using IMatch and Capture One instead of Lightroom.

But I don't expect in a good DAM-Software doing all perfect tool, but a sophisticated, smart downloader is -in my opinion- a part of a DAM-Workflow and will fit (?) perfect to the rest of the "smart" IMatch. When I have RAW-Files, I always use Capture One. Not perfect but good enough. 

This is also my opinion. A photoeditor can not be expected in a DAM-software. A DAM software like IMatch is for organise and manage my photos. But for doing this, the photos must come from the card (for example) into the IMatch-system, and for doing this, we have (my opinion) a DAM-software.

And in the case of IMatch5 we have a tool called "Renamer", what is really phantastic, and there are only some possibilities adding to the renamer, and then we will have a very good tool for downloading files.

I tried to use Downloader Pro, a fine software, but finally I do not want another soft, when IMatch does the job for me also.

At the moment I must use maybe the renamer twice or do a step "per hand" or ... ahh, create a script for IMatch, but I am very sure, one day Mario will enhance the renamer, so that all will be perfect.

Finally Mario must have some stuff to do in the future ... 

[marcv]

I am in favor of adding a downloader.
Very likely, I will be moving from Idimager to imatch. One of the things I like from Idimager is the downloader. Integrating it into the DAM product allows one to automate a few things while downloading;
- assign keywords
- assign clients
- combine the downloaded images into a collection
- establish version relationships (raw+jpg)
- ...

All this can be done later of course, but having it in imatch would make life easier.

[Mario]

IMatch does all this already, and more, when ingesting images.
Just copy the files from your card or the camera into a folder indexed by the IMatch database (or a sub-folder or a indexed folder) and IMatch ingests the files. Depending on your indexing settings, IMatch can add metadata, categorize the files, assign files to collections and more. There are even specialties like "Assign all files I marked as read-only in-camera to the XMP label "Keeper").

Renaming and distribution of files can be handled by a Renamer template.

All that a Downloader would do in addition would be to interface with your camera to download the files on disk. But since Windows already has that functionality built-in, I postponed adding this as a separate feature to IMatch for later.

[marcv]

Thanks Mario, this sounds like a workable solution. Will give it a try when the public beta is available...

[cytochrome]

I voted "not important" : since two years I use PhotoMechanic for ingestion, first cull, IPTC, GPS. It does it very well, can be customized at will, etc.. Can't see Imatch surpassing it for ingestion.

There is no problem in having two different programs for ingestion and cataloguing. In fact I use a third one (ASP) to develop my raw, and I don't wish Imatch to include a raw treatment program. Its raw handling via codec is just fine and well enough in a cataloguer.

Francis

[Richard]

Can't see Imatch surpassing it for ingestion.

I can see Mario developing something that would surpass anything available. I don't see the point in trying unless he has nothing better to do. Surely there are abilities that just aren't available elsewhere that should have a higher priority. Or abilities that are available in some other application but are not very well liked. Why reinvent the wheel when so many are happy with the wheel they have?

[cytochrome]

Well, this is what I wanted to say. Ingestion is a task by itself, there are several viable alternatives to handle it just fine.

IM is already such a vast project that is seems a waste of time to redo it. The most important at this stage is to polish the product, offer consistent help and a sensible user interface so as not to loose the newcomers... and the old customers who may be dismayed by something too different.

Francis

[Richard]

I too have had concerns about how vast IMatch 5 has become. Some potential customers were scared off by the complexity of IMatch 2 or 3 and IMatch 5 is more complex. I recall comments about the steep learning curve. However nobody needed to learn everything about IMatch 2 or later just to be able to use it. I began by reading the IMatch Tutorial and creating a test database as recommended in the Tutorial. The 53 page Tutorial gave me all the help I needed to begin using IMatch. As needed I read about features I had not yet used but thought I might. After using IMatch for 12 years there are still features that I do not use and thus do not fully understand. One of the great features of IMatch has been Scripting. If I had to have understood scripting to use IMatch, I would likely have been scared off also.

My point being that all IMatch versions have had a steep learning curve but a user doesn't need to learn but a few basics to be able to make good use of IMatch. Whether it is a new or old customer, I hope that everyone will read "First Steps" and "Meeting IMatch, listed on the first page of the help file to get the basics. Then, as need arises, dig deeper into Help to learn more about a feature that seems a likely candidate.

In an attempt to proof-read the entire help file, I am reading about every feature word by word. If I had any notion that I had to learn everything before I could use IMatch 5, I would probably stay with IMatch 3. Since my goal in reading Help is NOT to learn all there is to know about IMatch 5, I am enjoying my effort. In the process I am seeing many features that I will study later to learn how to use all or parts of that feature. I also see features that I will likely never use and thus never study. While I may never use the ExifTool Command Processor, I know that it exists. If I ever need it I will go back and study how to use it at that time.

I believe that having the IMatch 5 help file available is a great opportunity for potential beta testers to learn in advance. I would recommend just scanning each feature at first. If a feature is something that you know that you will use, go back and study the details for that feature. But do not waste your time trying to study each and every feature. There are just too many and trying to learn them all will make the learning curve seem insurmountable. Maybe another way to say this is to first 'taste' each feature and if you like the taste then go back and enjoy a plate full. If you don't like the taste, just go on to the next feature and see how it tastes. Yet make sure you get a good enough taste. Had I not read the Renamer section word for word and just gone by the brief description, I would not have learned that the feature has capabilities that I will likely use.

"Renamer
The Renamer allows you to rename and distribute individual or sets of files. You can produce unique file names using parts of the original name in combination with sequences provided by IMatch, variables and the metadata contained in your files."

[sinus]

I see, that the script-power of IM5 is very strong.
Scripts has the big adventage, that they can be completely individual, cutted on my wishes.

My way will be, I think, to do a lot with scripts, I will do also the stuff, what the renamer does, by a script. But of course ... that takes time to "develop" (means edits some other scripts  ) such scripts. I hope, I will be able to do so.

Until then, I will use the renamer.

[Richard]

I see, that the script-power of IM5 is very strong.

I have no doubt about that. Although I do not write scripts it appears to me that Mario has provided so many new tools that a knowledgeable person could build a routine so powerful that it would be akin to an application in itself.

Richard

[sinus]

I see, that the script-power of IM5 is very strong.

I have no doubt about that. Although I do not write scripts it appears to me that Mario has provided so many new tools that a knowledgeable person could build a routine so powerful that it would be akin to an application in itself.

Richard

Hi Richard, thanks

Sorry to ask  (I cannot find very nice smileys here), but I do not understand the last part of your sentence (I made it red).
I tried to google, but did not find something, what would fit into.

Would you be so kind to explain it in other words? THANKS!

Specialy "akin" I do not understand.

[Richard]

Hi Markus,

For "akin" you could use "like". With all the new goodies in IMatch 5 a skilled person can build an add-in that even includes a user interface. Thus the results are so much more than a script in 3.6 that the end product is more like an application. I hope that those with those skills will build these utilities and share them with other users just as so many have done with scripts in 3.6.

Richard

[sinus]

Hi Markus,

For "akin" you could use "like". With all the new goodies in IMatch 5 a skilled person can build an add-in that even includes a user interface. Thus the results are so much more than a script in 3.6 that the end product is more like an application. I hope that those with those skills will build these utilities and share them with other users just as so many have done with scripts in 3.6.

Richard

Thanks, Richard, for your explanation.

Yes, I hope the same like you. I am sure, one day we will have a lot of nice an useful scripts.

[Richard]

 Yes, I hope the same like you. I am sure, one day we will have a lot of nice an useful scripts. [/quote]

It is the term "script" that I now find inadequate to describe what a person might develop with all the new goodies in IMatch 5. Some of the scripts developed for 3.6 were indeed powerful but, based on my limited knowledge, it seems we need a different term when referring to what can be produced in IMatch 5. Scripting is now just one of the tools for accessing the power of IMatch 5. Maybe someone can give us a more inclusive term.

[claudermilk]

I'd go with "plugin." That should encompass the power available and hte UI options that can be taken advantage of. I really want to look at that myself, but I barely have time to keep up with the builds right now.

[marcv]

"IMApps" 
for IMatch Apps :-)

[sinus]

Yes, I hope the same like you. I am sure, one day we will have a lot of nice an useful scripts.

It is the term "script" that I now find inadequate to describe what a person might develop with all the new goodies in IMatch 5. Some of the scripts developed for 3.6 were indeed powerful but, based on my limited knowledge, it seems we need a different term when referring to what can be produced in IMatch 5. Scripting is now just one of the tools for accessing the power of IMatch 5. Maybe someone can give us a more inclusive term.
[/quote]

Yep, I agree. But I, as a non-native-English-speaking-person, I have no idea for such a word.

[Carl]

The problem is that if you use a RAW workflow and add an Image Ingester to IM5 then frankly a RAW converter also needs to be built into the DAM to complete the ecosystem. Where does that leave us? Either a massively bloated IMatch, an IMatch that does half a job and still leaves you having to access other applications to complete the RAW work, or Lightroom

In the meantime, whilst feature suggestions are great, I would have thought that at this early stage in the public Beta it is more productive to concentrate on IM5's existing feature set to identify any remaining bugs or improvements that could be introduced.

Just a thought...

Carl