Pencil for unwritten metadata does not disappear

[JoeHolzwurm]

I again have some files with the pencil for unwritten metadata.
I now wrote the metadata several times into the files but after some seconds the same thumbnails appear again with the pencil.
The pencil shows the lines:
IPTC::ApplicationRecord\Keywords
XMP::dc\Subject

The files exist in the directory and are writeable.

Where does this problem come from and what can I do?

[Mario]

IMatch is trying to synchronize hierarchical keywords to flat keywords.
Apparently when the file is read-back, the hierarchical keywords still don't match.

Check and if you cannot solve it yourself, please provide info about:

1. Your keyword import settings (Edit > Preferences > Metadata)
2. The metadata setting for the file format you used (E > P  > Metadata 2, and the per-file format options you have configured). Especially if IMatch is allowed to write back data to IPTC. If you use a sidecar or embedded XMP etc.
3. Your thesaurus details if you flatten keywords via your thesaurus (optional)
4. Check the metadata in the file in Browser. Search for keywords and subject and look at the existing IPTC keywords and the XMP subject tags. Do they match the hierarchical keywords? If not, what differs.
5. Open the ExifTool Output Panel (F9,O) and then do a write-back. Copy/Paste the output to your reply.
6. Attach the IMatch log file from the session where you did that write-back.

Any of these settings can cause the problem you are describing.

[JoeHolzwurm]

1. Default
2. Default
3. Thesaurus is not used until now
4. The keywords exist twice. How can I delete the flatten keywords or rewrite completely?
5. The window is empty.

[JoeHolzwurm]

The field for the flatten keywords is closed and I cannot delete the value.
How can I get rid of the keywords?

[Mario]

If MWG compliance is on, IMatch maps hierarchical keywords automatically to flat XMP keywords and IPTC keywords. This is why you cannot edit these tags manually. To delete all keywords, delete the keywords in the Keyword Panel and then write back. Or, click on the pen icon in the Keyword panel to mark the keywords as 'updated" and then write-back. IMatch then synchronizes XMP hierarchical keywords into flat XMP and IPTC keywords.

[Ferdinand]

You can also use the Exiftool command process to wipe all keywords, but if you do this you will need to do a forced refresh of the metadata to get IMatch to recognise that they've been wiped.

[JoeHolzwurm]

I now deleted the keywords in the keyword panel but this did not solve my problem with those 11 images.
Each time I write the metadata into the file the flat keywords are added again. I now have them three times in these images.

[Mario]

When writing flat keywords, the first command IMatch sends to ExifTool is to delete the existing flat keywords. So duplicate keywords should not appear, unless their is a weird combination of "flatten" settings enabled or something. I would need to see the keywords you write. And your keyword flatten settings under Edit > Preferences > Metadata.

And please attach one of your original files or send it to me, with a link to this thread.
It's easier than you producing EXIF tool output manually.

[JoeHolzwurm]

I worked with hundreds of images during the last days and I have this problem only with 11 images.
Attached you see my settings and with the link you get one of the 11 images.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nuo3sig1swhl4bj/090918_0011.jpg?dl=0

[attachment deleted by admin]

[JoeHolzwurm]

Did you find something related to this problem?

[Mario]

I did not look into this. Forgotten. Posts like this which are made to General Discussions do not show up on my to-do list. Only bug reports and feature requests do. I suggest you file a bug report and link to this topic. I'm currently working in a totally different area.

[Richard]

I downloaded your image and added it to my database. I could not get the pencil to go away so I removed all the IPTC Keywords. Now the pencil is gone. I am not suggesting that you remove all keywords but you should edit entries and remove any that are duplicates.

[JoeHolzwurm]

Hello Richard,

thank you testing my problem and trying to help me. I made the following steps:
- I delete all hierarchical keywords and rewrite the data into the file.
- Now I get completely different keywords in this file. These keywords do no belong to the file and I do not know where they come from.
- I again write my categories with a metadata template into the hierarchical keywords.
- Now the hierarchical keywords are again ok and I click onto the pencil.
- Now I again have the keywords twice in their field (the hierarchical keywords are ok).

I will write a bug report.

[joel23]

@Joe
The reoccurring pencil (looping) is (primary) not because your keywords in IPTC and XMP are different, but because you used diacritical characters in IPTC (Victor Miclǎuș which is shown as Victor Micl?u? in IPTC), which can not be written when IPTC character encoding is set to Default:
ET Output: Warning: Some character(s) could not be encoded in Latin
Unfortunate IPTC always is the dominating record.

Thus IPTC is not synced to XMP. When the settings are switched to UTF8 before import, keywords are nicely read, written to IPTC and synced to XMP. Which is no solution for you here, because unfortunate other tags (like Copyright) gets garbled than. See attachment. Keywords okay now, but Copyright messed.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[emef]

joel23: "And there was light! ";-)

Following my character encoding problem (https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=3370.0), so it was enough that I do not allow writing IPTC that IM does not depreciate my text copyright inserted under Lightroom.

I just found the hot water! (Mea Culpa, mea maxima ...)     

Thank you

[JoeHolzwurm]

Thank you very much for that information. This sounds logical and I will change the names.
So this problem is solved for me.

[joel23]

Emef & Joe
when all Metadata are synced to XMP better delete all IPTC, because on a re-import or when the XMP (sidecar?) gets lost or corrupted, you will get the values from IPTC back.
After you have delete IPTC you can rebuild it by switching the settings for the effected file format.

[muranod]

I just encountered an issue where clicking the pencil icon seemed to work, but the file remained in the "metadata to write back" collection and the pencil icon persisted. Turned out there was a | character at the end of a keyword (from Silverfast - I did not put it there). Once I deleted that extraneous character, I was able to write back and collection with metadata to write back finally went to zero # of files.

[Mario]

Interesting. Can you send me the original file (before you repaired it)?
A pending | at the end of a keyword should not cause any synchronization issues, so this depends on the data already in the file and your settings.
Do you use non-standard Metadata Settings? Show me a screen shot of Edit > Preferences > Metadata (and send me the original file).

[muranod]

The original is a 50mb tiff. I exported as a jpeg and the metadata was changed and I did not have an issue using the write-back command on it.

I opened the 50mm tiff in Photoshop, resized and saved it so I could email the tiff file. It's about 850kb now and has the same issue with write-back as the larger version.

[Mario]

This is what the sample file contains:

[IPTC]          Keywords                        : © Dan Murano, all rights reserved, Silverfast scan, Framing, Silverfast scan
[IPTC2]         Keywords                        : © Dan Murano, all rights reserved, Silverfast scan, Framing, Silverfast scan
[XMP-dc]        Subject                         : © Dan Murano, all rights reserved, Silverfast scan, Framing, Silverfast scan
[XMP-lr]        Hierarchical Subject            : all rights reserved| Silverfast scan|, © Dan Murano, Framing, Silverfast scan|, Silverfast scan

This is from the ExifTool Command Processor. ExifTool separates keywords via , and as you can see, it seems that Silverfast (?) writes a complete mess of hierarchical keywords:

all rights reserved| Silverfast scan|
© Dan Murano, Framing
Framing
Silverfast scan|
Silverfast scan

A mess of this kind can only be fixed manually in the keyword panel. Or by deleting the XMP hierarchical keywords from the image in the ECP, then let IMatch re-import the file and then write the proper keywords back. Or maybe with the Metadata Mechanic, to strip out nonsense keywords like Silverfast scan| or all rights reserved| Silverfast scan| from entire sets of files.
I don't see a way to automate this or to add a work-around for this into IMatch.

[muranod]

Thanks, Mario. I got it to write back by simply editing the caption in Imatch and removing the | character. Yes, the keywords on the Silverfast scans are a mess. :-(