Is there a way set default properties for new Categories?

[Ted]

Have just started working with Categories that are not under @keywords.  I created several (100+) before adding images to them.  I decided to turn on Color-coding to better see what I was doing.  I found that I had to do that to each of the categories - I learned that each category that I had created had a default Color-Coding property of No - I wish it had been Inherit.  I looked in the help (apparently not in the right place) and the preferences (apparently not in the right place) and was not able to find where I could set up default values of a new category being created.  Right now I'm being forced to look at and change each of those 100+ categories.

Did I miss something, or is it not possible?

Thanks.

[Mario]

When you create multiple categories, use the command to create multiple categories at once. It sets the color sets as you like them.

For your other wish: Create a 'template' category somewhere with the properties you like, and then use copy/paste to copy it where you want to have it.

[Ted]

Previous to yesterday I have rarely looked at / changed colors, but I have a few time.

Now that I look more closely, I see that a vast majority (maybe 95%) of those categories under @keywords have the Color-Coding set to Inherit.  I do not specifically recall (or what have had a need) to set them previously.  Most (perhaps 95% again) of those categories were created by importing from IM3 and the rest have been created manually.  I'm sure that is documented somewhere in your help system, but I never found it - or maybe it's not documented.

At any rate, I do have my categories (outside of @keywords) set up now using copy/paste of a 'template' category (as you suggested) and also copy/paste of categories created under @keywords.  Thanks for your suggestion.

I now have a question about the 'category color bar' on the image. 

If I look at only one image that is in four @keywords sub-categories and four 'mine' sub-categories ('mine' being at the same level as @keywords), the category color bar is divided into FIVE groups - 1 being the color of the @keywords sub-categories and 4 representing the 4 'mine' sub-categories.  Right now I have only one color for the @keywords (green) and one color for the 'mine' (silver) -- all sub-categories use the inherit property. 

To me this seems inconsistent and incorrect.  It would seem to me that in my above example there should be only TWO divisions in the color bar because there are only two category trees and each has been selected.  It should not make a difference how many entries are checked in one tree but not the other.  If you believe that each selected sub-category should be represented on the color bar, then why not for the @keywords category?

What am I missing?

[sinus]

Sorry, I can not following, what you mean, I tried, but I am not able to understand your problem.

[Ted]

Hi Markus,
Here's an example.  If I have a photo in the following categories

@Keywords
-Event|Local Sites
-Place|USA
-Source|PhotoShop
-Year|2013

Mine
-Event|Local Sites
-Place|USA
-Source|PhotoShop
-Year|2013

where Mine is a category NOT under @Keywords.  Now I make the background color of all the @Keywords categories GREEN and the background color of all 'Mine' categories SILVER.  When I look at the thumbnail of the image I see GREEN,SILVER,SILVER,SILVER,SILVER

Does that make any more sense?  If not, please let me know.  Thanks for your remarks.

[sinus]

Hi Ted

Hm, I am not wrong, this works here.
I have only tried it with two @keywords - sub-categories, and 3 normal cats.

It gives me a color-bar froom 5.

You have not forget in the @keywords-properties to choose NOT ".... hide from file Window"?

BTW: If I have 5 equal colors, say green, in 5 different categories, even in the same level, IMatch gives 5 bars with green, this was also in IM3 and for me this is correct.

[Ted]

Hi Ted

Hm, I am not wrong, this works here.
I have only tried it with two @keywords - sub-categories, and 3 normal cats.

It gives me a color-bar froom 5.

You have not forget in the @keywords-properties to choose NOT ".... hide from file Window"?

BTW: If I have 5 equal colors, say green, in 5 different categories, even in the same level, IMatch gives 5 bars with green, this was also in IM3 and for me this is correct.

Markus,
Thanks for the reply.
What you say in interesting, but different than what I am experiencing.  I have Color-Coding field set to 'Color-coding active' - not 'Color-coding active, hide from File Window'.  This is true of @Keywords and 'Mine'.  Since I last wrote I have run diagnostics and compressed the database and I still see the same thing.  Guess I'll have to create a new test database and try it there to see what happens.

[Ted]

Ok, so I've created a brand new database and read in about 80 photos.  I created 4 sub-categories under @Keywords; created 'Mine' as a regular category and copied the exact same sub-categories to 'Mine'.  I set all sub-categories to inherit and the the two main categories to 'Color-coding active'.  As before, I set the background color of @Keywords to Green and the background color of 'Mine' to silver. 
I then selected one photo and clicked @K|sub1 and the entire color bar turned to green; then clicked Mine|sub1 and the color bar changed to 50% green; 50% silver.  Then clicked on @K|sub2 and there was no change in the color bar; clicked on Mine|sub2 and the color bar was 33% green; 33%silver; and 33%silver.  Continued to add @K (sub 3 and 4) with no change; then added Mine|(sub 3 and 4) and ended up with the color bar of 20% green; and 4 silver bar of 20% each.

So, Markus, if yours is working and mine is not then there must some setting elsewhere that we have set different.

Mario, I'm attaching the debug log file from this session.

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[Richard]

I think what you are seeing is normal behavior and the reason may be because the @Keyword categories are data driven and the normal categories are not.

[Ted]

I think what you are seeing is normal behavior and the reason may be because the @Keyword categories are data driven and the normal categories are not.

Hi Richard,
I certainly hope not.

Got some additional information.  In all of my past examples the @Keyword category and sub-category were all Green.  I've changed that so that each of the four legs of the @Keyword sub-categories are now a different color.  Now I can see each of the four colors of the @Keywords sub-categories.  Still not the same as regular categories where they show a color bar for each of the sub-categories - even if the color is the same.  Mario has a bug here, or a bad design - and I hope he able to fix it easily.

Let me give an example again as to what I've found.

@Keywords[Q]
-sub1[A]
-sub2
-sub3[C]
-sub4[D]

Mine[R]
-sub1[E]
-sub2[F]
-sub3[G]
-sub4[H]

where the letter inside the [] represent a color for the subcategory

If only [Q] and [R] are specified and an image is in all 8 sub-categories, then the color bar looks like this:
Q,R,R,R,R
However, if each sub-category is assigned a unique color, then the color bar looks like this:
A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H
If sub3 has two of its sub-sub categories selected, then the color bar looks like this:
A,B,C,D,E,F,G,G,H

[Mario]

Child categories of @Keywords are automatically set to inherit colors. This allows you to color-code @Keyword categories by just setting the properties for @Keywords.

[sinus]

where the letter inside the [] represent a color for the subcategory

If only [Q] and [R] are specified and an image is in all 8 sub-categories, then the color bar looks like this:
Q,R,R,R,R

If I remember correct, then this is by design.

All normal cats does create a color-bar under each thumb, even it is the same color.

But not with the @keywords-cats.
Because usually users (like me) has dozens of @keywords, and if you would give the main-@keyword-cat one color, and all subcategories would have a bar under the thumb, you would end with say 30 bars under a thumb 

I am quite sure, this is by design ... and makes sense for me.

[Mario]

The file window considers colors from normal and data-driven categories (including @Keywords) but no formula-based categories.
IMatch first determines all categories 'giving' colors to a file. These categories are sorted alphabetically to produce a consistent order of colors. The file window displays the first n of these colors, where n is determined by the available space inside the thumbnail panel and the configured minimum with for each color bar (6 pixels).

Colors specified for @Keyword categories can also be displayed in the Keyword Panel. Use the drop-down menu available for the Gear button in the Keyword Panel to enable or disable this feature.

[Ted]

Thank you for your replies.  As it is currently, I will just disable this 'feature' as it is not helpful to me.

[P.Jones]

Hi Ted, I've just tried this and I get

1. @Keywords

2. Categories

3. @Keywords and Categories

is this what you mean

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[Ted]

Hi P.Jones,
Yes, but that is only part of it.  Now, leave the color on the category, but remove the color from each of the sub-category and set them to inherit the color from the main category.  Then repeat your test and you will see a very different pattern - you will see one block for the @keywords category and 4 blocks for the Mine category - each with the color of the 'Mine' category.  That's where Mario and I have a difference of opinion - and he controls the code and therefore wins. 

[Mario]

That's where Mario and I have a difference of opinion - and he controls the code and therefore wins. 

What? I did not follow this thread, sorry. Too much to do. What's the problem? Or is there a bug report?

[P.Jones]

Hi P.Jones,
Yes, but that is only part of it.  Now, leave the color on the category, but remove the color from each of the sub-category and set them to inherit the color from the main category.  Then repeat your test and you will see a very different pattern - you will see one block for the @keywords category and 4 blocks for the Mine category - each with the color of the 'Mine' category.  That's where Mario and I have a difference of opinion - and he controls the code and therefore wins.

Hi Ted I see what you mean.



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[sinus]

From my point of view this is correct, as it is.

Or I did not see your point.

I have read it somewhere in the help, could not find it now.

The @Keywords is a special data-driven category.

Look at my example. @Keywords has a pink background.
Because natively all subcats are inherig, all (hundrets) of keywords has also the pink background.
Now, IF IMatch would bring them all under the thumb, it would have simply too much (I have for example easy 50 @keywords and more. This would not be a good solution.

You can see this, the thumb is representing by 1 pink bar.

BUT, I can color-coding my @keywords, make them not inherit. I did so for 2 cats in the beginning with yellow, and you see, this time both yellow bars are displayed.

This makes for me sense, because usually, if someone works with @keywords, that there are 10 and more keywords.
With the system, like it is now, you CAN do it, like I did. This means some work, but it must be done only once.

Mario could it do the other way round, makes, that all inherit @keywords will have an own bar, but I do not know, what then would happen with the bar with 100 different or same colors.

Maybe I see not your point and I am wrong, but this is by design, and this is for me the best way.
My 2-cents.

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