afphoto file thumbnails

[Lincoln]

Just started using the Affinity Photo software but when saving the file as a .afphoto IMatch 5.8.4 will not generate a thumbnail for me. Windows Explorer correctly displays the thumbnail.
Under preferences Affinity Photo is listed and enabled. Is there any other setting I need to look at?

[Mario]

Which version of IMatch are you using?

The changes introduced in the 5.8.4 release usually solve this problem.
Affinity only supports a subset of the standard Windows shell functionality and relies on technologies introduced with Windows 8 and later.
If you use an older IMatch version or Windows 7, you're out of luck.

.aff* is a proprietary file format and serif does not provide any documentation for it. I asked in their forum but they won't publish any details. A revers engineering project is currently under way and maybe they figure out enough to allow us to extract thumbnails and previews. So far we depend on their shell extension and at least all the files I have here work with IMatch 5.8.4 and later.

Note: You are using a proprietary and undocumented file format.

[Lincoln]

Using latest version IMatch 5.8.4 and Affinity 1.5.54 on a windows 10 pro with latest version/updates computer. I have rescanned the folder several times and rebooted but just shows the Affinity logo whereas Windows Explorer displays the thumbnail. Maybe my problem is the large file size 100 mb  6 x 7 cm scans from a film scanner?

Note: just tried saving as a small file but that didn't help. Saving as .tiff file will let me work around it in the meantime. Hopefully .afphoto will allow thumbnails to be extracted in the future.

[Mario]

When Explorer shows the file, IMatch should be able to show it to. I have several hundred Aff Designer files here, and a dozend photo files. They all work flawlessly.
Please attach your test file or send it to my support email.

Hopefully .afphoto will allow thumbnails to be extracted in the future.

Don't put your hopes up. They made it very clear in their forum in response to my question (and the question from several other users/programmers) that they won't document their file format or provide 3rd party access. They also plan to do their own "DAM" and so no other DAM vendor can hope to get anything from them. They will keep their formats proprietary. And as we can see, even the 3 methods IMatch now uses to extract thumbnails don't work for all their files. Another long-term compatibility problem dooming.

I have made it a rule that all my AfDesigner files are also saved as SVG, which is documented and portable. I don't rely on proprietary file formats, ever. This includes RAW, PSD and now also the Affinity files. Proprietary files are always a dead-end or a cheap lock-in mechanism for customers.

[Lincoln]

Years ago I scanned thousands of trannies to digital. Saved in a variety of formats including .tiff, .psd and .dng. The .tiff files are the only ones that still display thumbnails although I can still edit the main files. The best chance of being able to edit these files in another ten years is saving them .tiff.
Interesting though that you can generate a thumbnail from an image file. have attached one to see if it's possible off the files I have.

[Mario]

TIFF is one of the very few image formats which are considered suitable for long-term archival by museums and libraries. TIFF is around for 30 years or so, lossless, works across all platforms etc. SVG is similar, for vector graphics.

No problem displaying your file on my machine.
Windows 10, only Affinity Designer installed. This is what I get:



Have you tried a forced rescan (Select some files, press Shift+Ctrl+F5 and choose "force update")?

This this does not help, please attach the IMatch log file (Help > Support > View ...) from that session. Maybe Windows reports an error message that helps us to solve this.

[Lincoln]

Created a new folder "Affinity" for IMatch and added 6 .afphoto to it. Ran as a full log which is attached. No thumbnails only the logo showing - I have only just started to play with Affinity Photo and working on a workflow. Instead of using the save button I should just use the export and save as a .tiff. Those .tiff files are looking more attractive but I am interested as to why the .afphoto thumbnails show on your computer and not mine. Hope the log file might shed some light on this.

[Mario]

The log file reports

F:\To process\IC15007.afphoto with 2000 x 2000 (O: 2000 x 2000)

which looks like it got a 2000x2000 pixel preview/thumbnail. The same for all your other files.
Looks perfectly normal. I don't see why IMatch should fail to display a thumbnail.

Do you see a "black" thumbnail or the Affinity Logo in the file window?
Maybe the thumbnail IMatch gets from Windows on your system is 2000x2000 pixel all black?

[Lincoln]

No black thumbnails showing. When image is first previewed after creation it shows a large Affinity logo then the thumbnail with small Affinity logo appears , after that the thumbnail displays as expected - this is in Windows explorer. IMatch is running in default settings. The image attached shows what I see. Have changed my workflow with Affinity Photo to export as .tiff files so this is not a problem now. Thanks for taking a look.

[Mario]

I'm not sure if Affinity can save all Affinity-specific options in a TIFF file. TIFF can be the 'final' output file for archival, but while you work on the file. the .aff* file is probably required.

Maybe another user can try your sample file from above and see if he/she sees a proper thumbnail.
If this works on my system without Affinity Photo installed, it should work on your system as well. Especially if you see the thumbnails in Windows Explorer and IMatch gets a 2000 pixel thumbnail from Windows without any error...

Can you try this:

Open a folder containing some .aff* files in Windows Explorer and switch to a thumbnail layout (medium or large).
When you see all thumbnails in Explorer, do a forced rescan in IMatch. Maybe the thumbnails need to be created in Explorer first or something...?

[Ger]

Same on my system. No thumbnails for .afphoto.

Ger

[Ger]

And Mario, a forced rescan doesn't work either

[Lincoln]

I can confirm that - different sizes all display and forced rescan fails as well.
Ger - Can I ask if you have only Affinity Photo installed and not Designer as well.

[Ger]

Affinity Photo only

[Jingo]

Confirmed here too.. only get white paper thumbnail... no horse thumb...  but - Affinity Designer only installed.

[Mario]

Maybe it's one of the changes I did for IMatch 2017 that's causing this to work on my machine...

[reck]

I am currently using the trial version and can confirm this isn't working on the trial version either.

Mario will you release an update to fix this or will users have to upgrade to the 2017 version to see Affinty thumbnails?

[Mario]

I am currently using the trial version and can confirm this isn't working on the trial version either.

Mario will you release an update to fix this or will users have to upgrade to the 2017 version to see Affinty thumbnails?

1. I don't know how to 'fix' this.

IMatch uses 2 alternative methods to extract thumbnails from files not directly supported.
The standard method (which worked since 2008) and a new method (introduced in Windows 8 ).
These methods are the "official" way under Windows to get thumbnails for files. Except WIC codecs.

The shell extension installed by Affinity does not support the standard method, but it works with my test files with the second method.
That's all I can say. I tested this on Windows 10 32 and 64 bit with about 20 afphoto files from various users and 50 of my own affdesign files.

Affinity is unfortunately uncooperative and refuses to document their file format. They are not even willing to share a minimal set of info that allows other developers to extract the PNG thumbnail they store somewhere in the aff* files. I tried, but they refuses.

All I could do in addition would be to try to reverse-engineer their file format. Which may take a long time, may be affected by every update they ship etc. Really, a thing of the past. Why they don't support the standard Windows preview interfaces or, even better, provide a WIC codec for their file format, escapes me. Probably they only want support for their file formats in their own DAM. Shame, really.

I would need a .afphoto files that fails on my W10 boxes (plain standard test systems) so I can see if the Windows routines return an error.
The file shared by the OP works on my system. And, at least by looking at the log file, IMatch can extract a preview on his system to (2000 pixel). Why IMatch still shows the "unsupported" icon in the file window escapes me.

2. IMatch 5.8.4 is the last version of IMatch 5. All changes I make are for the IMatch 2017 code base.

[sinus]

Affinity is unfortunately uncooperative and refuses to document their file format. They are not even willing to share a minimal set of info that allows other developers to extract the PNG thumbnail they store somewhere in the aff* files. I tried, but they refuses.

I personally do not use (if possible) software from companies with such a behaviour.

[Mario]

I personally do not use (if possible) software from companies with such a behaviour.

You use Adobe products.

[sinus]

Yes, but I think, after all, they have done over the years bad things, but also some very good things.
I think, editing photos and some formats, and specialy some metadata-stuff would be not so far like it is now without Adobe.

But of course, they do and have done also stupid things. The world is mostly not only black and white. 

[lnh]

Affinity is unfortunately uncooperative and refuses to document their file format. They are not even willing to share a minimal set of info that allows other developers to extract the PNG thumbnail they store somewhere in the aff* files. I tried, but they refuses.

All I could do in addition would be to try to reverse-engineer their file format. Which may take a long time, may be affected by every update they ship etc. Really, a thing of the past. Why they don't support the standard Windows preview interfaces or, even better, provide a WIC codec for their file format, escapes me. Probably they only want support for their file formats in their own DAM. Shame, really.

I have no knowledge of their development process, but since Affinity Photo started life as a Mac exclusive and they now maintain feature parity between Mac & Windows version, might they be using some set of tools which don't completely support some Windows standard methods? Would be interesting to hear if Mac users of AP can see thumbnails in Photos for Mac. AP-Windows is an OK app right now, and certainly has the potential to be a Photoshop alternative for me, but it still seems a bit incomplete and sometimes buggy. Would it help if AP users made comments about lack of thumbnail support in 3rd party DAMs on their support site?

[Mario]

I can see thumbnails for these files on my system, in Windows Explorer and IMatch. I had to extend IMatch to support yet another method of thumbnail extraction (5.8.4) but since then it worked with all files I have here in my library - including the file that fails on the other user's system.

[Lincoln]

So far it seems only Mario is able to see thumbnails if I understand correctly using Windows 10 and IMatch 5.8.4?
I tried a few image browser's but only XNViewMP showed the thumbnails. Adobe Bridge didn't either. When I updated IMatch on my backup laptop without any Affinity software I got a white thumbnail but could write to a xmp sidecar file. My desktop computer with Affinity Photo displays the logo.
Was wondering if anyone who has the FastPictureViewer Codec Pack installed advise if they can view .afphoto thumbnails? I can't see that file type listed on their website but there has to be a good chance that they could read them.

[Mario]

FPC does not support affinity thumbnails.
I have only Affinity Designer installed on the machine where I can see the thumbnails.

Have you tried to open one of the folder containing affinity files in Windows Explorer and switch to a medium/large thumbnail view? Press <F5> to force a refresh.

Windows sometimes works in mysterious ways and maybe this gets the thumbs working in IMatch as well (don't forget to do a forced rescan afterwards in IMatch).

[herman]

My main PC has Affinity Photo installed, as well as IMatch of course and the current release of FPV codec.
FWIW it runs W10 Pro X64.
On that machine Windows explorer shows a thumbnail of an .afphoto file. It is not a 'normal' thumb but it has an AF logo in the lower right hand bottom.
IMatch can not render a thumb of that file, it just shows the AF logo.

I copied that .afphoto file to my tablet.
It has a plain vanilla W10 Pro X64 installation, no IMatch, no FPV codec, no Affinity Photo.
On that machine Windows shows no thumbnail at all, just a rectangular portrait-orientation white empty icon.

This makes me think that Affinity Photo probably has some hook/service/..... that enables Windows explorer to render a thumb.
I also suspect that Affinity Design (? or whatever Affinity product it is that Mario uses to design his artwork) has another hook/service/.... that enables IMatch to render a proper thumbnail.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mario]

IMatch requests thumbnails from Windows for all format for which it has no built-in support (or formats not supported by a WIC codec).
Windows then relies on "extensions" installed by the vendor of the proprietary application. In this case, the extension installed by Affinity.

I have Designer installed and I can see thumbnails for both .afdesign and .afphoto files in Windows Explorer and IMatch.
To support the "way" how Affinity does thumbnails, I had to write extra code for IMatch.

One of the changes in the 5.8.2 release): https://www.photools.com/release-notes/?productId=115  #00057

[Lincoln]

Thanks Herman - you just confirmed my thinking. I get exactly the same results as you. As far as I can tell having Affinity Designer installed is the main difference at this stage. Forced rescan doesn't load a thumbnail but Windows Explorer and XNviewMP both display thumbnails.

[Mario]

IMatch should report a warning in the log file, or the error code returned by Windows in this case.
The last log file I saw showed that IMatch got a 2000 pixel thumbnail for the .afphoto file, but for some mysterious reason still did show the icons....

[Jingo]

Thanks Herman - you just confirmed my thinking. I get exactly the same results as you. As far as I can tell having Affinity Designer installed is the main difference at this stage. Forced rescan doesn't load a thumbnail but Windows Explorer and XNviewMP both display thumbnails.

As I reported earlier, I have ONLY Affinity Designer installed and get just a blank (white) thumbnail for the image in IMatch.  I was hoping AD was the difference maker here.. but it still doesn't show.  Perhaps having AD and AP installed is the answer?  I can install AP to find out I suppose...

[Lincoln]

Thanks for your input Jingo - Can I ask if you can see a .afphoto thumbnail in Windows Explorer?
As I mentioned before a white thumbnail shows on a computer with no Affinity software - running Windows 7 though and a logo thumbnail on computer with Affinity Photo.
Another interesting thing happened to me. I have a collection of corrupted Canon .cr2 files (from over 6 years ago) well at least IMatch, Photoshop, Lightroom or Canon Software couldn't read them but Affinity Photo had no problem editing them?
So Affinity certainly handles the files in a different way - to my advantage in this case.
The good news is they can be viewed, well at least one computer (Mario) the mysterious thumbnail continues!

[Jingo]

Thanks for your input Jingo - Can I ask if you can see a .afphoto thumbnail in Windows Explorer?
As I mentioned before a white thumbnail shows on a computer with no Affinity software - running Windows 7 though and a logo thumbnail on computer with Affinity Photo.
Another interesting thing happened to me. I have a collection of corrupted Canon .cr2 files (from over 6 years ago) well at least IMatch, Photoshop, Lightroom or Canon Software couldn't read them but Affinity Photo had no problem editing them?
So Affinity certainly handles the files in a different way - to my advantage in this case.
The good news is they can be viewed, well at least one computer (Mario) the mysterious thumbnail continues!

Hi.. no thumbnail in windows explorer nor in XYPlorer (my explorer replacement).  Just a white thumbnail in both places.

[Mario]

Some news on this.

I tried this again, checking my code for failures. Could fine none.
IMatch asks Windows for a thumbnail for the file IC15550_s.afphoto. Windows returns success but what IMatch gets is a 300x300 pixel icon on a black background.

Now: In Windows Explorer I can see the file. So this is supposed to work. And usually does, except for .afphoto files (afdesign are OK).

But: Switching Windows Explorer to display large thumbnails (in the View menu in Explorer) seems to solve this problem. When I afterwards do a forced rescan of the image in IMatch, the thumbnails appears:

So, please try this on your machine. Open the folder in Windows Explorer, switch to large thumbnails. When Windows Explorer shows the large thumbnails, rescan the folder in IMatch. Should work.

[Lincoln]

I can see thumbnails but only for some of the afphoto files. I also have a .afdesign file which shows thumbnail in windows explorer but not in Imatch.
I tried rescanning - forced,cache, also changing the thumbnail size in windows explorer as suggested. I must say that my default is always large but having tried switching sizes I can't generate a visible thumbnail.
Also resaved the files after making a change in Afphoto
So it does work but what the exact parameters required are I haven't worked out yet.

[Mario]

All I know that Windows returns a "class not registered" for some files which don't work.
For others, Windows returns a resized icon instead of a preview image - this usually only happens if a file has no embedded preview. Since afphoto is a proprietary and undocumented file format I can only look at the black box from the outside. I use both the old (pre W7) and current (W7, W8, W10) method to fetch thumbnails from files. If both do not work, I think the problem is the Affinity shell extension. I have spent way to much time with this already.

Besides, afdesign files work much more reliable. Using the same code in IMatch!

[lnh]

I was running into the exact same problem as others.
Windows 10 Pro 64bit
IMatch 5.8.4
Both afphoto and afdesign installed.

Initially I also got the big AF logo rather than the thumbnail. Followed Mario's suggestion and viewed the files with Extra Large Icons in File Explorer. Went back and ctrl-shift-f5 (forced) and the thumbnails displayed in IMatch. I normally use Directory Opus for file management, and it would display .afphoto files in thumbnail view in different sizes without issue, however that didn't change the ability to get thumbnails in IMatch.

Was also running into another issue before fixing the thumbnail display. I have some JPG files (no RAW shot) which I brought into afPhoto and then generated an additional JPG version along with saving the file as a afphoto. With the original JPG being the master, I versioned both the afphoto and it's derived JPG. The thumbnail for the master became the afphoto icon even though it was still very much a regular JPG. Not sure why that was happening.

[Mario]

All this thumbnail business is really a non-problem. IMatch asks Windows for a thumbnail and usually just gets one. For PDF files. Office documents, Open Office. Various image formats. Why this should fail just for .afphoto (sometimes) but not for so many other file formats is a riddle to me. There are only two methods for this, and IMatch uses both. For many years. I think this is more a problem caused by the Affinity shell extension. I use Affinity Designer and I see al thumbnails in IMatch and Windows...

[Lincoln]

  Using the 64 bit version 2017.8 and now have no problem with getting thumbnails from either Affinity photo or design files. Works without any special steps and handling 300 mb files.
Many thanks for your work on keeping IMatch the best DAM in the world!!!

[Mario]

Thanks for your feedback. May be helpful to other users.

I don't see any dependency between the 'bitness' of an app and the thumbnail functions in Windows, but this would not be the first time that Windows does make a difference...

[Ger]

I can confirm, the 64bit version shows the thumbnails. However, I need to rescan/force update the files.

Ger

[Mario]

This is to be expected. It seems Affinity only installs a 64-bit edition of their thumbnail handler. For whatever reason...

[lnh]

Like others are seeing, the afphoto thumbnails now show up on previously loaded files after a cntrl-shift F5 force update. Nice!

[kirk]

Have just installed imatch2017 trial  64 bit.      No Affinity photo thumbnails at all.  Just some placeholder picture with green arrow.  It's pity really since I am going to cancel my Photoshop subscription.

[Mario]

Can you see thumbnails in Windows Explorer? (Use the large thumbnail mode).
Maybe then rescan the files with <Shift>+<Ctrl>+<F5> => Force Update.
The Affinity thumbnail provider for Windows seems to be a bit erratic at times...

[kirk]

I did something and now I do see them in Imatch 2017.  Not sure why I didn't before.  I have just refreshed the folder one more time.

ps. I do see them in win explorer