No Metadata Change in IMA?

[WebEngel]

Hi,

do I understand the IMA web page correctly in that IMA cannot do any metadata changes like headline, title, rating, label?

That would be my most needed feature: Sit with the kids in the living room, check their videos and images showing them during playing, and immediately rate them.  With that, IMA would really be awesome.

I am considering installing IMA.

Regards,
Martin

[sinus]

If I am correct and have understood IMatch Anywhere correct, such a feature is planned for the future.

[Mario]

As explained in detail on the web site, IMatch Anywhere is a streamlined and simplified browser-based remote access facility for IMatch databases. The target audience are users with little or no DAM and IMatch knowledge in corporate environments. And of course IMatch users who want to browse their IMatch databases on tablets, smart phones, TV sets, remotely on any platform.

It is designed as an add-on for IMatch and delegates database maintenance and metadata updates to IMatch for Windows.


In my roadmap posts I also go into the details about why this is that way, and how IMatch Anywhere will develop over the next versions. I explained in my recent posts that IMatch WebServices now have features to update databases (because that is needed to do all the awesome scripting things we can do in IMatch 2017). I will use IMatch 2017 as the test ground for these write-back features. During the next steps I will enhance them to be multi-user capable and then either enhance IMatch WebViewer or create a more "IMatch-like" web interface for IMatch Anywhere.

The problem with "updating metadata" in a shared and multi-user environment like IMatch Anywhere is not updating the metadata per-sé. The problem is synchronizing the changes between all users currently browsing the database - and to prevent that users wipe out accidentally changes done by another user.

For example a user changing the keywords in a file. This not only changes the keywords in this file, but also one or more categories, one or more collections. The file history. It may cause the file to be sorted differently. It may even re-position the file on the time-line.

Changing keywords or other metadata for one file may also trigger metadata propagation due to versioning. And this changes even more categories and collections.

Now consider that 10 other users are working with IMatch WebViewer on the same database at the same time. How to synchronize all the changes caused by user A among these users. The categories they see may be wrong now. The result of the Navigator may be wrong. The order in which they see the files may be wrong. The data they see may be wrong...

It has a reason that typical multi-user server based DAMs cost 1000 US$ per user per year...

[ubacher]

I would think that if such editing would be restricted to just one user it would satisfy a large user base.
And it would certainly be a lot easier to implement.

[Mario]

I would think that if such editing would be restricted to just one user it would satisfy a large user base.
And it would certainly be a lot easier to implement.

This is what you can already do with IMatch now. Without IMatch Anywhere.

Creating a version of IMA which allows only one user to edit would be useless. No market.

[WebEngel]

Mario,

thanks for the exhaustive answer.  I am an IT solution architect myself, so I know about the problems you describe here.

My use case would not be a multi-user situation though, I would either sit in front of the main PC or at the other device.  But I do understand that you have to take multi-user situations into consideration as well.

The read-only mode has one advantages as well: I can install IMA, access with an Android device and give it to my 3-year old without worrying that he ruins my data.

The only point is that without the write-back scenario, IMA is of very limited value to me.  Assume I view pictures or a movie.  Afterwards, I know that 2 of the 5 movies and 5 out of 10 pics should be deleted because they are crap, while 2 pics are great.  Without the write functionality, I will be viewing the same crappy movies and pics one week later again, and I will not be able to show someone the 2 really great pictures.  I don't have the time to "just" view my media, I am so much behind schedule with rating and labeling that rating has to happen every time I view something.

Creating a version of IMA which allows only one user to edit would be useless. No market.

I disagree.  The use case is the server in the office and the laptop or tablet in the living room.

So this is why I need to consider other scenarios on top for my purpose.

Concept: Use XMP files to rate and label, and have IMatch pick up these changes.

For pictures, I could go back to Fast Picture Viewer which I discontinued once Imatch 5.5 was fast enough for the job.

For movies, I don't know any rating or labeling solution that automatically creates XMP files

I could use two different IMatch databases; one on the server, and one on the client.  Both would point at the same physical directory on the server.  Then, I could use Imatch on the client to rate the media files.  Once I am done with a folder, I need to write back everything to XMP files.  These XMP files would then be picked up by the server database.  Every two weeks or so I could copy the main database to the client and relocate to the changed drive letter so that the most categories would be correct.

Downside is that I maintain two separate databases, and _I_ have to care about consistency (and not Imatch).  Other downside is that I can only change metadata that is transferred through XMP files – which is true for rating and label, but which does not work for pins, dots and categories.

Anybody have another idea?

[Mario]

As I said, IMatch WebServices now support functions to change metadata, process files and lots more. We'll see all that in IMatch 2017 where it is use for many purposes. After a couple of months of gaining experience, I will start enhancing IMatch Anywhere for write back. All problems solved. For now, IMA does all what it is supposed to do.

[Jingo]

I disagree.  The use case is the server in the office and the laptop or tablet in the living room.

Remote Login....  I do this now on my laptop to my server in the other room... Choose your flavor of remote access, get on main PC, load up Imatch... have at it.   My IMA db might be viewable on my TV while I remotely update on my laptop...  Once all is edited, I close down IMA, copy the IMatch DB over to the IMA DB and then reload IMA.. voila!

While I too welcome a version of IMA that allows write backs to the DB... I think there are many methods of accomplishing the edits currently using the tools we have available.  In the end, its all about workflow though so I get wanting direct edit access. 

[Mario]

(...)
While I too welcome a version of IMA that allows write backs to the DB... I think there are many methods of accomplishing the edits currently using the tools we have available.  In the end, its all about workflow though so I get wanting direct edit access.

This is of course correct. BUT, remote logins, remote desktop, TeamViewer and suchlike are more for the advanced user. Nothing that you would necessarily give to family members or employees 

The ability to change rating, label, title, description or keywords right in the browser will be helpful - for all users. Or assigning files to categories. Much more is not needed for average users.
For another user group thinks like adding (uploading) files, file system operations, deleting, renaming etc. will be required.

I considered all that while enhancing IMWS for IMatch 2017. Both IMatch and IMWS now have ways to actively tell the client (browser) about events. An app thus knows that a file has been updated, a category has been deleted or new files have arrived. Apps running in IMatch are notified in the same way that the selection in the file system has changed or that the user has switched to another view. Very important enhancement!

There are now also more privileges available which control groups of operations, e.g. "Can change Metadata" or "Can Add/Update Files", "Can Delete Files", "Can change Categories" etc.

For the IMWS in IMatch, all these privileges are always granted - the IMatch user is king, after all.
For the IMA server product line, these privileges can be assigned to user groups and thus control whether or not a user can change metadata or delete files from a web browser.

The only tricky part for IMA will be to figure out a proper concurrency schema which prevents simultaneous changes to the same "object" and also ensures that the information the users see in their web browser is always "correct". Or at least let them know that the category (or files) they are currently looking at have been modified and need to be reloaded. This has to  be implemented in IMatch WebViewer of course.

I have learned a lot while doing all this and writing the sample apps I will ship for free with IMatch 2017.
This new know-how will help me to improve WebViewer over the coming months. But for now, IMatch 2017 comes first.

[Jingo]

I agree Mario... I still think of IMatch as a "home user" type product though I know it is much more and use in many different environments.

[Mario]

I agree Mario... I still think of IMatch as a "home user" type product though I know it is much more and use in many different environments.

There are many small and medium businesses which need DAM functionality but don't have the 10,000 to 50,000 US$ per year budgets the big DAM vendors demand.
Even the completely cloud-based offerings cost several hundred dollars per month, with a few users and only a few gigabytes of storage...
And you need to upload all your files, which is potentially dangerous, allows 3rd parties to "look" at them, and may violate the privacy laws in your country.

A powerful, flexible, quick to install and affordable solution like IMatch Anywhere is something that fits into this niche. Especially since most small and medium businesses, institutes, libraries etc. have Windows servers running anyway. Installing and running IMA in such environments is a 30 minute job. Not a 'project' 

[WebEngel]

As I said, IMatch WebServices now support functions to change metadata, process files and lots more. We'll see all that in IMatch 2017 where it is use for many purposes. After a couple of months of gaining experience, I will start enhancing IMatch Anywhere for write back. All problems solved. For now, IMA does all what it is supposed to do.

Hi Mario,

I have now Imatch 2017 and IMA (latest test version) installed.  The application and its manuals do not seem to allow metadata changes.  Did I misunderstand you?

What also puzzles me because I cannot have Imatch and IMA accessing one DB at the same time.  If they are not running at the same time, concurrent changes cannot be a big issue (can only come from two concurrent users on the browser UI, which should be handled by one server, so should not be a problem)

Is this as designed, will it stay like that, or do you plan any changes.

[Mario]

1. IMatch Anywhere does not allow metadata changes (yet).
The features to modify metadata have been introduced with IMatch 2017, only four weeks ago. I will need to re-design the entire IMatch WebViewer to allow for metadata changes. And this will take some time, probably end of the year or so.

What also puzzles me because I cannot have Imatch and IMA accessing one DB at the same time.

This behavior is by design. IMWS needs exclusive access to the database. You cannot open a database at the same time in IMatch and IMatch WebService. See the corresponding documentation of IMatch Anywhere for details.

If they are not running at the same time, concurrent changes cannot be a big issu

Multiple users can (will) make changes to the database concurrently, at the same time.
Apps can make multiple changes to the database at the same time (all IMatch apps utilize asynchronous processing and so an app, if not programmed correctly) can attempt to change the same resources concurrently.

I have written dozenzs of threads about the future developments of IMatch and IMatch Anywhere in the past six months. Please give the community search engine a spin.