CaptureOne Buddy-Configuration

[Nordlicht]

Hello,

I'm working with C1 and C1 has a lot of sidecar files. At the moment I'm working on the buddy configuration for my RAW.

I've have Fuji RAWs which are supported by C1 and not supported RAWs. The not supported RAWs I convert into DNG-Files.

The DNG-Files I've set as Masterfiles for the RAW and the jpg as proxy.

My Buddy-Configuration is:

Master expression:            \.(raf|RAW)$
Replacement Expression:   ^_*//
Link Expression:                ^(_*{name})[+\-_]*[0-9|a-z]*\.(xmp|dng|DNG|jpg|JPG|dng.cof|dng.cop|dng.cos|dng.comask|dng.cot|jpg.cof|jpg.cop|jpg.cos|jpg.comask)$


There are other possible combinations; e.g. tiff- or psd-files. For the other files I can also set e.g. tiff.cos als Link Expression.

Is there an other way, which is less uncomplicated? For RAW, DNG and JPG this configuration is working fine.

Thanks

Matthias

[Mario]

Don't att XMP as a buddy file. IMatch automatically manages XMP as buddy files, with some special internal rules.

Unfortunately, C1 is spreading lots of sidecar files around instead using a simpler concept (e.g. one sidecar file for everything).
If you really need to keep together all these files when you rename/copy/move in IMatch, there is no easier way to configure this.

[Jingo]

I would ask yourself why you are using the C1 buddy files... do you really need them if you are using IM to manage your images?  I use C1 strictly as a RAW editor... no metadata is added in C1 and thus no buddy files are needed.  The edits are exported as JPG's which I add to my IM database.. but you could also add the RAW/DNG files plus JPG's for proxy viewing in IM. 

[Nordlicht]

In the buddy files (*.cos / *.icm / *.comask) C1 stores the settings for the development process. I export a jpg only as proxy file for iMatch. C1 I'm using in Session Mode.

If I need an image for printing or the web, I open the master image in C1 and export in exactly the settings I need. The metadata are not edited in C1. C1 would probably cause problems there. I do not trust the C1.

[Jingo]

I see - yeah.. I use C1 as well.. but use a catalog instead of sessions... all my edits are stored in the catalog so nothing in written back to the images nor do I need to worry about buddy files.  Not sure what the benefit of storing your edits in the buddy files are vs storing them in the catalog - but I strongly dislike extra files that need to be kept insync with original images so I much prefer this approach.

[Nordlicht]

Since a view weeks, I've uses MediaPro. C1 and MP are only able to work together with C1 in session mode.

Using a catalog together with IM could be a good idea. I will try this way ...

[Jingo]

Yes.. I highly recommend it because all RAW edits are maintained in the catalog... and no buddy files created because you are not adding any metadata in C1.  All Metadata is handled in IM...  Good luck!

[Arthur]

The advantage of not having a catalog in the raw converter is, that you can move around your stuff in IMatch or on disc without the need to "relocate" the stuff in the raw converter afterwards. I am quite happy with the single dop sidecar file, which is produced by DxO. Feels like an extension to xmp.

[Jingo]

I suppose it comes down to workflow then... as someone who never moves a file once it is out on disk - the catalog works just fine.  If I did need to relocate a file - it would only be because I moved ALL my files after say a new drive was added to my system.. in that case, the file structure would be identical so only the top node would need to change.  I guess if you work with client files that get archived to other drives - perhaps the sidecar files would have benefit.  Nice that there are options for those that need them!

[Erik]

I don't think there is any less complicated way.  C1 makes a ton of sidecars; consequently, you need a complicated expression to set that up in IM.  It isn't IM's fault, and in fact a great feature that IM can make it work.

As for the catalog vs. sessions route.  I don't use C1, but I'd probably go the sessions route.  If the C1 catalog feature is like other software, having multiple catalogs can get to be a mess or requires discipline that I haven't always been able to stay up with.  When I was using LR, the catalog caused me headaches on multiple occasions especially when working with IM and LR simultaneously.  I had to rely on LR's catalog too much for processing images (i.e. culling and selecting images to process), which really defeated a lot of benefits of using IM.

When I gave up on LR a couple of years ago and switched to DxO (with stints using other software), I got hooked on being able to use IM as intended.  Sure I end up with a lot more files (1 sidecar per image), but I don't have to go through additional import and database scanning to just use the raw processor.

And, the hassles I have had aren't even tied to moving files, which I don't do.  It's just having to keep metadata in the catalogs in sync (keywords, ratings, labels) and having to import files into two databases that gets to be a mess.  I never really thought LR was that bad, but I definitely like being free of it. 

[Jingo]

Hmm.. that's the thing though - you don't need to keep your metadata in sync between your DAM and RAW editor.. thus, there is no need to do ANY metadata in C1... my workflow:

1 - Import items from memory card using BreezeDownloaderPro
   • Rename based on camera (ie: D500_Image_7091.NEF) and add images to local "import" drive by Date (Year/Year-Month)

2 - Once images on disc, open C1 (single global catalog) and synchronize top level folder to import new images
   • On import, auto apply Import Boost Develop settings to bump clarity, reduce shadows and apply lens correction

3 - Cull images and apply image group or specific edits until done with new imports
4 - Select images and apply Batch Process to export images as full resolution JPG's to "target" drive (same filename/folder structure as import drive)
5 - Open IMatch and allow watched folder to import new JPGs from target drive into the catalog
6 - Further cull, rate, keyword, tag, create galleries, etc within IM.

My RAW edits remain available in the C1 database.  MY JPG's (with updated RAW edits) are viewable and searchable in IM (the only place I go to edit/update metadata and search to use images).  If I ever need to re-edit a RAW file, it is easy to find that image in the C1 database by filename (since the folder structure is the same as IM). 

C1 and IM databases back up nightly to local database backup drive using different mode to keep 4 days of backup.  Import and target drive images get backed up nightly to local image backup drive using differential mode to keep 7 days of backup.  Images and databases get backed up weekly to NAS box in differential mode with 4 backups kept so I always have a month of backups as a failsafe.  All backups are automated via Novastor scheduling system.

Of course - what works for me may not work for you... but I have over 75000 images stored in both IM and C1 both in single catalogs... with no issues whatsoever.  With versioning and cascading metadata options, it would be easy for me to include the RAW's and JPG in IM as well... I just don't have the need so avoid the extra overhead. 

[Nordlicht]

It's always a question of personal workflow. I have saved the RAW files in my DAM and do not archive any edited JPGs or TIFFs. After editing the RAW file in C1, I export a JPG of a lower resolution as version for display in the iMatch catalog. So I see the RAW file in the edited state.

That's why the sessions make sense for me. I always have the settings for each image in the subdirectories of the images, which requires C1. If I move the directory to my NAS, then all settings are moved with.

If I want to print a picture (print, web, photo book) I open the pictures in C1 from iMatch. Through the session mode C1 always recognizes the processing status. I'm able to export the images just in time using the settings that I need or print out C1. I do not save the exported images in iMatch. They will be deleted after use. If necessary, I can always generate new ones.

The many files of C1 are not really annoying. So far it was unfortunately so that these were not deleted, if I delete pictures. That is different now. iMatch can do this for me and does a good job there. Ok, I have to work out and test the buddy configuration. Even if it is extensive and complex. I do that only once.

Using a catalog in C1 would not make sense to me personally. If I delete an image in iMatch, then the image in the C1 catalog would not be deleted. I would have to maintain 2 catalogs. It would also not be possible to directly open an image in C1 from iMatch.

But that is a question of personal workflow. Since you manage only edited images in iMatch and the process works for you, that's very good. You have a different approach.

It's great that iMatch offers so many possibilities.

[Jingo]

Interesting to see so many different approaches with the same software.. 

[sinus]

Hmm.. that's the thing though - you don't need to keep your metadata in sync between your DAM and RAW editor.. thus, there is no need to do ANY metadata in C1... my workflow:

1 - Import items from memory card using BreezeDownloaderPro
   • Rename based on camera (ie: D500_Image_7091.NEF) and add images to local "import" drive by Date (Year/Year-Month)

I cannot fully follow your workflow, because my low English-knowlede and I do not know C1.
Thanks for this anyway! 
I do manually "transfer" all images on the card into on folder (all are nefs)
This folder is indexed by IMatch, hence it does index it automatically (if this is on)

2 - Once images on disc, open C1 (single global catalog) and synchronize top level folder to import new images
   • On import, auto apply Import Boost Develop settings to bump clarity, reduce shadows and apply lens correction

3 - Cull images and apply image group or specific edits until done with new imports

After indexed by IM, THEN I do a "short" cull (with the viewer), because I want delete now all not necessary images (like black ones or images, what I am sure, I do not want them).
After this I do renaming all the pics and let it move into the correct folder (by month/date), this does IMatch (renamer) and IM does also now backup all images into another drive.
Basically I have now all images twice, one as a backup, but this backup-drive is not indexed by IM)

4 - Select images and apply Batch Process to export images as full resolution JPG's to "target" drive (same filename/folder structure as import drive)
5 - Open IMatch and allow watched folder to import new JPGs from target drive into the catalog
6 - Further cull, rate, keyword, tag, create galleries, etc within IM.

After this I do all the metadata-stuff like City, credits, headline, description and so on. Keywording is a special part of me, I do this later, only for some images.
After this is done, I do select the raws, what I want to "develop".

After selected I do write - back the metas, means IM creates some xml-sidecars.
After this I do open Photoshop Raw and create copies.

I let store PS the copies in the same folder like the raws, but with another ending (like _v1 ...).
IM detects the versions automatically.

After this I do the propagation, manually.
Now, if necessary (mostly) I do some final editing for the versions (jpgs mostly, only some -sorry- oldfashioned designers want have tiffs  )

Finally all pictures, raws and versions, and also all raws without a version (not used yet) I hold in IMatch.
To have not a cluttered window layout, I let IM stack (automatically modus) a whole event.
This gives me at the end one single image (what I did choosen), what represent all images in in the stack, about 20 - 200 or so. Looking at this single image (I call it info-master) I know exactly, what the event was and it is not necessary to see all images now (if, I can expand the stack, or view it in the viewer or stack-panel)l.

This is basically my workflow. 

[Erik]

Hmm.. that's the thing though - you don't need to keep your metadata in sync between your DAM and RAW editor.. thus, there is no need to do ANY metadata in C1... my workflow:

1 - Import items from memory card using BreezeDownloaderPro
   • Rename based on camera (ie: D500_Image_7091.NEF) and add images to local "import" drive by Date (Year/Year-Month)

2 - Once images on disc, open C1 (single global catalog) and synchronize top level folder to import new images
   • On import, auto apply Import Boost Develop settings to bump clarity, reduce shadows and apply lens correction

3 - Cull images and apply image group or specific edits until done with new imports
4 - Select images and apply Batch Process to export images as full resolution JPG's to "target" drive (same filename/folder structure as import drive)
5 - Open IMatch and allow watched folder to import new JPGs from target drive into the catalog
6 - Further cull, rate, keyword, tag, create galleries, etc within IM.

My RAW edits remain available in the C1 database.  MY JPG's (with updated RAW edits) are viewable and searchable in IM (the only place I go to edit/update metadata and search to use images).  If I ever need to re-edit a RAW file, it is easy to find that image in the C1 database by filename (since the folder structure is the same as IM). 

C1 and IM databases back up nightly to local database backup drive using different mode to keep 4 days of backup.  Import and target drive images get backed up nightly to local image backup drive using differential mode to keep 7 days of backup.  Images and databases get backed up weekly to NAS box in differential mode with 4 backups kept so I always have a month of backups as a failsafe.  All backups are automated via Novastor scheduling system.

Of course - what works for me may not work for you... but I have over 75000 images stored in both IM and C1 both in single catalogs... with no issues whatsoever.  With versioning and cascading metadata options, it would be easy for me to include the RAW's and JPG in IM as well... I just don't have the need so avoid the extra overhead.

You don't need to keep it in sync, but the issue I had with LR was that I wanted to use my DAM to do all my culling and sorting for processing.  On an initial ingest, I always want to be able to "flag" photos for processing.  To make this work with LR, I would use the color label and then rescan the library in LR so that LR would pick up the metadata.  Then with LR (and using DNG files, which my camera produces natively), I would use LR to write back metadata specifically to update the image previews.  This actually prevented having file versions, but that is a side thing.  The problem I would rarely have is if the labels and edits in LR crossed paths; in order to keep errors from occuring 100% of the time, I would have to close Imatch to use LR and then close LR to use IMatch. 

This wasn't a huge deal, but when I switched to DxO, it became so convenient to (1) quit relying on the labels and just use the flags and pins in IM to identify photos to edit and then (2) drag or select the DxO favorite button to open the selection of photos for editing in DxO.  The lack of a catalog on that end was a savior that I didn't know I needed (for my usage).

Of course, I know C1 isn't necessarily the same.  I think conceptually I just hate the idea of needing a catalog to use a RAW processor.  Of course C1 gives the option not to.  And, I do see the points made being valid.  And, if one never moves or renames files, there are little negatives or problems.  That matches up with my usage and observations with LR.  The problem again was using IM to identify files I wanted to process and then being able to find just those files in the other software.  I suspect I would have to resort to something similar in C1 (writing labels, or ratings, or some other metadata) and then rescanning images in C1 to see the updated metadata. 

Having buddy files doesn't seem like a huge problem to me.  Of course, there may not be a huge need to set buddy file rules in IM either, but if one were ever to rename, copy, or move a file, for whatever reason, the buddy files would not move with them.  And, the bigger problem would occur if one was deleting files and ended up with a lot of orphaned buddy files. 

If you ask me, there really aren't any great solutions.  Conceptually, the best may be to keep everything proprietary in one program (i.e. use C1 as your DAM and RAW editor or LR as your DAM and RAW editor), which many people do, but then you are locked in there too. 

Thankfully, IM and a company like Phase 1 (C1) have at least allowed flexibility to work as you wish.  I do wish the session-based workflow was a little cleaner, but it is what it is.  I do keep an eye on C1 and am tempted to purchase it more and more as time goes on.  But as long as I am happy with DxO, I'll stick there for a bit longer.

As an aside, I think it is a blessing that Adobe went the subscription route.  I realize that it is a negative in some ways (and will likely trickle to other software), but it has also spurred on some competition to really grow the feature set of a lot of 2nd rate programs that are slowly rising to Adobe's level.

[sinus]

Sorry to ask, for my understanding only:

I use IM for all ... except RAW-processing, what I do in Photoshop Raw (CS6).
Photoshop RAW writes all edit-stuff in the xmp, and IM holds this xmp fine.
Metadata I let IM also write in these xmps.

Hence I have no problems at all.
If I open the RAW again in PS, all edits are there, in the xmp.

The only thing I guess, is, if once I want change from PS to another program, because this other program will not understand the edits (contrast, colours and so on), but luckily they are viewable fine in the xmp - file and hence viewable fine in IMatch.

I think, without beeing sure, these edits, what I can see in IM, I could later "convert" into the other program, e.g. with a script.

If I know, contrast is in PS Raw +16, than I can test and see, that this is equal to the value "x" in the new program and so on.

If not, at least I can see the basic RAWs - editing in IM, hence this gives me good clues to edit the same RAW in another program.

Is this thinking completely wrong, too easy??

(BTW, I have tested a year ago to copy an xmp with RAW-edits-values on seveal files and it worked perfectly)

[Jingo]

I think, without beeing sure, these edits, what I can see in IM, I could later "convert" into the other program, e.g. with a script.

If I know, contrast is in PS Raw +16, than I can test and see, that this is equal to the value "x" in the new program and so on.

If not, at least I can see the basic RAWs - editing in IM, hence this gives me good clues to edit the same RAW in another program.

Is this thinking completely wrong, too easy??

Well.... kind of.  Other DAM software (don't want to mention who) has tried to "emulate" the edits from RAW editors (such as LR) with some success but that DAM also lets you edit images so through trial and error - they kinda mapped what a contrast +16 might translate too on their software and upon reading the LR edits - apply similar adjustments to get you close.

Trying to figure out what a +16 contrast in C1 might look like in LR is complex... because other slider edits affect each value... adding brightness +10 in C1 might have a greater affect on contrast adjustments than a +10 brightness in LR...

If you tend to edit your RAW files over and over - it is best to stick with one RAW editor - if switching, then you'll need to re-edit these images from scratch almost with certainty...  its one reason why I've forced myself into NOT editing RAW files after my initial pass unless I really need to do something with that image - especially years later (ie: 10 years ago I created a JPG and while it is ok, technology has come much further so re-created the JPG from the RAW file with new software could improve the JPG, etc)...

[sinus]

Thanks, Andy, interesting

Well, as long as I can, I will stay with Photoshop CS6 (and its Raw-Editor).