Is Your System Ready for IMatch 2020 Discussion Thread

[Mario]

This thread is to discuss the recent announcement about the minimal hardware requirements for IMatch 2020.

READ THIS PAGE FIRST, PLEASE.

This thread is to discuss the recent announcement about the minimal hardware requirements for IMatch 2020.

[loweskid]

I haven't downloaded the utility yet but I have a utility called 'Speccy' from Piriform on my system and this lists AVX under the CPU 'instructions' - see pic.  Does this mean it's OK without needing to run your utility?

[Mario]

Looks good. The CPU is from 2012.

[hluxem]

Downloaded the APP, everything worked fine and my system is ok. Looking forward to Imatch 2020!

Heiner

[mastodon]

Might we know what this attributes are good for? I have AVX, but I lot of others not. Will I Match 2020 use the graphic card, too? (i5 3570 and  MSI R9 270x Gaming 2GB)
I wonder, do I need any upgrade for better performance.

[Mario]

Might we know what this attributes are good for? I have AVX, but I lot of others not. Will I Match 2020 use the graphic card, too? (i5 3570 and  MSI R9 270x Gaming 2GB)
I wonder, do I need any upgrade for better performance.

IMatch always uses your graphic card 
The minimal requirement for DirectX is the version introduced with Windows 7 Service Pack 1. So, pretty low.
DirectX is the technology which IMatch uses to display and zoom files, for example in the Viewer. IMatch is no a computer game and works well with most graphic cards.

You can lookup information about all the various processor flags and capabilities using your favorite search engine. Wikipedia has an entry for each of them, and so do the web sites if Intel and AMD.
IMatch 2020 requires AVX to speed up certain calculations. Other CPU technologies are irrelevant (for IMatch).

[Mees Dekker]

My system does not support AVX. Does that mean that I can't run Imatch 2020 at all, or is it just a number of apps/some functionality that won't work?

If I need to upgrade, what processor, how much internal memory and what kind of graphic card (and also how much memeory on that card) would you recommend? I do not use my computer for gaming.  IMatch and PS (sometimes LR) are probably the "heaviest"apps I use.

[zematima]

Everything's fine.

[Mario]

My system does not support AVX. Does that mean that I can't run Imatch 2020 at all, or is it just a number of apps/some functionality that won't work?

IMatch 2020 will just plainly crash on systems without support for AVX. Because the processor cannot handle the instruction set requirement by IMatch and Windows will shut IMatch down.
This is why I'm doing all this up-front. To learn if and how many users are out there with hardware so old that they don't have AVX support. I doubt there will be many. But I'm not sure.

Finding a system without AVX is pretty rare. Only if the CPU is older than from 2011 or one of the rare super-cheap CPUs used for some Notebooks at the time.
Unless ~ 20% or more of the IMatch user base tell me that they don't have a CPU that has AVX, they will have to wait with their IMatch 2020 upgrade until they have modernized their hardware.

What I want to avoid is to have to produce two separate versions of IMatch, one which requires AVX support on the CPU and one which doesn't.
Not only I would have to deal with features which run super-slow or even have to be removed in the non-AVX version. I would also have to spend doubled efforts for testing and the entire build/ship process.
Maintaining four separate versions of IMatch 2020 and later eight (8!) versions of IMatch Anywhere. Massive effort.

If I need to upgrade, what processor, how much internal memory and what kind of graphic card (and also how much memeory on that card) would you recommend? I do not use my computer for gaming.  IMatch and PS (sometimes LR) are probably the "heaviest"apps I use.

IMatch has no special requirements. Windows 10 runs fine on systems with 4 GB (better 8 GB) RAM and up. That's also good for IMatch.
IMatch needs only about 1 GB RAM for databases with 300,000 to 500,000 files! Much less for smaller databases.
(Photoshop usually eats 50% of all available RAM when it starts, without doing much else).

A SSD to store the IMatch database (and Windows and the TEMP folder) is a massive performance improvement.

Any modern graphic card with 2GB or more RAM works fine with IMatch (and usually Photoshop).
More RAM on the graphic card means for IMatch that it can cache more (and larger) files in memory, which speeds up the Viewer and Quick View panel.
IMatch has by no means the same demands on the graphic card as a computer game. (Sometimes people buy 600+ $ graphic cards just to be able to play a specific game  )

A faster CPU with more cores speeds up anything. Especially applications like IMatch and Photoshop which have been designed to utilize all processor cores available in the system.
IMatch can do many things in parallel and in the background, and the more processor cores there are, the more things IMatch can do in parallel (until the file system or database transfer speed becomes a bottleneck).

Some of the new and still secret features in IMatch 2020 greatly benefit from more CPU cores.
My PC has a 6 core CPU and is over 4 years old. When I swap it I will surely invest in a 8 or even 10 core CPU. Not only for IMatch but also for Ps, Lr, Blender and some other software I use regularly.

In conclusion:

Most affordable consumer PCs / Notebooks these days have at least 4 CPU cores and 4 to 8 GB RAM. And a usable on-board or dedicated graphic card.
And these will do very fine with IMatch.
If your database has 500,000 or more files, spending a bit money to get 8 or 16 GB RAM is a good investment.
But the most important bit is to have a SSD to hold Windows, applications, temporary files and the IMatch database.

[sinus]

I have a
Intel Core i7-4790K and checked with the Intel-page, there is written:

Intel® SSE4.1, Intel® SSE4.2, Intel® AVX2

Hence I think, my cpu is ok for IMatch2020.

You wrote, Mario, this:
Only if the CPU is older than from 2011 or one of the rare super-cheap CPUs used for some Notebooks at the time.

Well, if this is true, we could say (roughly), that all people with a computer, what is 9 years old and older (next year even 10 years), they cannot use the new IMatch2020.

Of course there are computeres out there older than 9 years (I have also one at home), but users who deals with images, should nowadays know, that 9 years for a computer is very old.
And they should be aware, that they cannot use all software on such a computer.

And btw, if you would put out IMatch2020, this means not, that such users cannot use the "old" IMatch, what we have now.
They could use IMatch longer, they are not out of the game.

[Mario]

AVX2 is the successor of AVX and includes AVX.
You can always run the utility I have created to be sure.

And btw, if you would put out IMatch2020, this means not, that such users cannot use the "old" IMatch, what we have now.
They could use IMatch longer, they are not out of the game.

Exactly. As so many users who still use IMatch 3 (!), IMatch 5, or IMatch 2017.
IMatch is not a subscription and does not stop working when you don't buy upgrades. I just provide no support anymore for legacy versions.

[Mees Dekker]

Mario

thanks for your swift and comprehensive answer/advice. My machine is from early 2010 and is still running fine.

Whenever I buy a new computer, I go for state of the art at that moment, in order to avoid upgrades as much as possible. But now it seems that the time has come to say goodbye to my old and trusted friend. 

[Aubrey]

My Desktop (2014) is OK.

My travel computer Dell M4400 is not:
GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q9300  @ 2.53GHz
         AVX -
        AVX2 -

My computer running IMWS also gives issues:
GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8600  @ 2.40GHz
         AVX -
        AVX2 -
       3DNOW -

Is AVX required for IMatch Anywhere ?

Aubrey.

[Mario]

Is AVX required for IMatch Anywhere ?[/b]

That is something that is still under consideration.

IMatch Anywhere 2020 will be released several months after IMatch 2020, as usual. Different release cycle, more like ESR.
But I'll have to ship a compatibility update for IMatch Anywhere 2019 when IMatch 2020 comes out - because the database format has been enhanced.

I know that people run IMWS on low-end or 'old' computers. And all kinds of 'strange' devices like stick PCs and suchlike.
Which is perfectly OK because IMWS does not need nearly as much processing power as IMatch.
And I want to keep it that way, if possible.

I'm not sure as of yet about the best possible way to deal with this. I will find out until IMatch 2020 is released.

[jarraun]

Seems ok here:

GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz
AVX OK
AVX2 OK

Javier

[pmbvw]

Also ok for me:    GenuineIntel   Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz
                         AVX OK             AVX2 OK

[thrinn]

My desktop is quite an old hand - but still ok, it seems:
GenuineIntel
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz
         AVX   OK
        AVX2   -

It is only AVX that is required, not AVX2, right?

[Mario]

AVX is all that's needed.

[jelvers]

My system is "AVX ok".

Rgds, Juergen

[StanRohrer]

My system passes the test. It was scratch built in 2011.
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz, 24.0 GB RAM
Windows 10 Pro x64

[Tveloso]

Another "AVX OK" system here as well.

I have seen others remark in this forum at how amazing it is that one man can create such a robust piece of software, and keep it evolving with new (and even some invented) technologies...and I just have to reiterate that. 

Mario has said in other contexts here, that he's not Adobe, or he's not Microsoft...well you certainly wouldn't know it from the Quality, Flexibility, and Depth of the software he creates.  Thank you so much Mario!

[Carlo Didier]

Just checked and even my very old Sony Vaio (SVT1311) laptop which I sometimes use when traveling (because it's small and light) seems to be compatible:
      Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3317U CPU @ 1.70GHz
         AVX OK

[Mario]

This is a 2 core CPU from 2012 so AVX support is available.

The "No AVX" only applies to processors made before 2011 or to some rare low-budget CPUs used in notebooks and some other devices.
As this thread shows, my assumption that not many users (one so far) will be affected by the IMatch 2020 changes in the minimal hardware requirements was correct so far.

[stephock]

Well, I ran your utility, and it appears I won't be running 2020...

[Mario]

Unfortunately, this 2013 model is one of the rare CPUs where Intel skipped/disabled all more advanced functions (probably to stay within a price corridor).
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium_Dual-Core/Intel-Pentium%20G2030.html

[Belenos2017]

My Computer has no AVX 

[Mario]

Your system is using a processor launched in Q1 2010. This is a rather old CPU.
Intel integrated AVX starting 2011, AMD as well.

Your processor is unfortunately too old.

IMatch 2019 will continue to work of course.
When you have replaced your 10 year old system with something newer, you can upgrade to IMatch 2020.

[Aubrey]

My Desktop (2014) is OK.

My travel computer Dell M4400 is not:
GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q9300  @ 2.53GHz
         AVX -
        AVX2 -

My computer running IMWS also gives issues:
GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8600  @ 2.40GHz
         AVX -
        AVX2 -
       3DNOW -

Is AVX required for IMatch Anywhere ?

Aubrey.

Just purchased replacement laptop. now got Dell precision M4800 as a travel business computer.
Thank you Mario... it was about time I upgraded!!.

Bought US refurbished in Dubai for 390 $. Looks like new. Specs indicate was originally about 2500$ about 3 years ago... they depreciate faster than cars!

Roll on IM2020!

Aubrey

[Mario]

Sounds like a fair deal.

Specs indicate was originally about 2500$ about 3 years ago... they depreciate faster than cars!

Companies often lease PCs and then return them to Dell after 3 years.
Then Dell looks them over and shells them out at fair prices. The Precision series is for commercial use and should last you a couple of years.

[kiwilink]

I have AVX but not AVX2.  Will I gain anything for IMATCH if I change to a motherboard that has AVX2?

Thanks!!

Kiwilink

[Mario]

I have AVX but not AVX2.  Will I gain anything for IMATCH if I change to a motherboard that has AVX2?

Thanks!!

Kiwilink

As explained in https://www.photools.com/7438/the-photools-com-system-information-utility/
you need only AVX, not AVX2. AVX2 is rather rare.

If the utility tells you that your CPU has AVX, you're good.

This has nothing to do with your motherboard. This is a feature of the processor you use. Processors made after 1/2011 usually have AVX.
Of course different processors need different motherboard types.

[Frank]

I am ready

[HaWo]

GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz
         AVX OK
        AVX2 OK
       3DNOW -
    3DNOWEXT -
...

[dkorman]

Mario,

Checking my infrastructure, I guess that I was unaware of the age of my processors - three passed your test, two didn't.  I use iMatch on three machines - two passed, and one didn't.

So, given that (1) I think that iMatch is such a great product and (2) I'm not excited about spending time/money on upgrading a working system, I will probably need to reconfigure my environment.  Upgrading processors alone can sometimes work, but if one needs to upgrade motherboard and processor and memory, Windows will complain loudly and probably require repurchase of Windows and reinstallation of all applications (time and $$).

Questions:

1) Doesn't your telemetry tell you anything about the installed iMatch user base regarding processor readiness (e.g. processor type/version), though I know that not every user as turned on telemetry.

2) I have not run into the AVX problem with other software - is this a problem because the third party vendors you are using are now requiring it?

3) Are you aware of other software products which are requiring AVX? (I suspect that most software that utilizes "advanced" feature sets also support environments without them, though with a performance penalty.)

Thanks,
David

[Mario]

AVX is such a common (and now almost 10 years old!) processor feature. All processors created since 2011 have this feature. With very few exceptions.

If people run systems which don't have AVX and still run fine, no problem.
They can continue using IMatch 2019 until they buy a new PC. I mean, a PC 10 years old, how long will it work reliably anyway?

I cannot hold back on new technologies or produce multiple versions of IMatch just because a handful of users needs to run IMatch on 10 year old computers.
It's not that IMatch 2020 suddenly demands top-notch 500+US$ graphic cards or a high-end CPU with featuress only available for a couple of years.
Making the move and requiring a CPU which at least supports the almost 10 year old AVX technology is not such a big thing I think.

I don't want to waste time to implement 'fall-backs' or entire secondary program paths just because of a few users. I will do it if really needed, but so far it does not look like here is more than a handful or maybe a few dozen users who would benefit. And the time spent on developing everything twice would not available to improve IMatch for the majority of users who don't rely on very old computers.

Two versions of IMatch means twice as long test cycles, two distributions, two installer test cycles etc.
And for IMatch Anywhere it would mean 12 different versions to create, test and ship.

No, I don't have telemetry info on this yet. I could probably figure it out from the processor name used or something. Not sure this will be worth the effort.

[emef]

I think it's good, right?

[Mario]

You're good!

[okeine]

You are simple awesome and My system is ready for IMatch 2020.

[halftone]

Well, um. I don't visit the forums often and knew nothing about this AVX stuff. Neither of my PC's support AVX, as I've now found out.

So how do I revert to 2019 on the one I 'upgraded' and discovered iMatch no longer works? If I run the 2020 .msi it offers to repair or 'remove' iMatch. That sounds like full removal, not a way back to iMatch2019.

I'm sorry but I am rather pissed off by this. I've been using iMatch since 2004 and did not expect this sort of antisocial behaviour. Because it's critically important the installer should have (a)put up a big red warning or (b)forced a restore point to be created, or some way to revert. I also would have appreciated the upgrade email and upgrade wizard mentioning this elephant trap. I have backup images, of course, but I would have preferred to avoid wasting 2 hours. 

[Mario]

Well, um. I don't visit the forums often and knew nothing about this AVX stuff. Neither of my PC's support AVX, as I've now found out
(...)
I'm sorry but I am rather pissed off by this.
(...)
...2004 and did not expect this sort of antisocial behaviour.

The requirement for AVX is not only discussed in this community (for a long time).

It is also explicitly mentioned in these places:

1. download page (https://www.photools.com/download/)
2. in the hardware & software requirements (https://www.photools.com/hardware-software-requirements/)
3. on the IMatch 2020 - What's New page: https://www.photools.com/imatch-2020-whats-new/
4. on the Upgrading to IMatch 2020 page: https://www.photools.com/help/imatch/#migrate_imatch2020.htm
5. in the big blue "Your upgrade voucher" box you see when you enter the customer portal. I'm sure you have seen this, otherwise you would have no upgrade.

If you have really overlooked all that, I don't know how else I could communicate this minimum requirement to you.
What did you read before upgrading your license to IMatch 2020? Where should I have put the info so you would have known?

I don't find it anti-social of to upgrade the minimum hardware and software requirements for a software every couple of years.

To roll back to IMatch 2019, uninstall IMatch 2020.
Re-install IMatch 2019.
Restore your database and settings from the backup you have made, as per upgrade instructions.

[halftone]

Thank you Mario.

Of course I saw none of that as I used the upgrade wizard in iMatch 2019,  to which I recently upgraded (from 2017) as a result of your marketing nudge which also didn't mention revised hardware requirements in the forthcoming version. I found it easily enough when I looked for an explanation of why 2020 wouldn't work.

Entirely my fault. I was in a hurry to do it before lunch.

[Mario]

What kind of computer do you use? AVX is supported since 2011 on virtually all processors...

[billy3]

Hallo Mario,

ein Test meines Laptops mit deinem Prog ergab folgendes Ergebnis:

Intel Core i7-2860QM
...AVX OK
...AVX2 -

Kann ich davon ausgehen, dass ich mit IMATCH 2020 arbeiten kann?

Gruß
billy3

[halftone]

Main box is Pentium Dual-Core E6800@3.33GHz, laptop is a Dell Precision M4500 Core i7 x920 2.0GHz (but only used for iMatch/photos
when travelling).

Both date from ~2010 and run W10pro fine. Neither are slow. I spent money on RAM and SSD's instead.

[Mario]

Hallo Mario,

ein Test meines Laptops mit deinem Prog ergab folgendes Ergebnis:

Intel Core i7-2860QM
...AVX OK
...AVX2 -

Kann ich davon ausgehen, dass ich mit IMATCH 2020 arbeiten kann?

Gruß
billy3

AVX is available, you're good. Here is the official spec from Intel for your CPU.

[Mario]

Main box is Pentium Dual-Core E6800@3.33GHz, laptop is a Dell Precision M4500 Core i7 x920 2.0GHz (but only used for iMatch/photos
when travelling).

Both date from ~2010 and run W10pro fine. Neither are slow. I spent money on RAM and SSD's instead.

This is a mobile processor from 2009.
AVX was introduced in 2011.

[deLaBoetie]

Sadly, my dual Xeon X5670s are Nahalem from 2011 and do not support AVX. Big pity because, despite its age, it's a very capable workstation (24 cores and 96G), and I have no intention whatsoever of changing it, there's life in the old dear yet.

I wondered if you could load the dlls on demand that DO require the AVX instruction set - as I understand it, it's required for the new tagging capabilities only? That might allow the majority of the functionality to work as before, and just not support the bits that need AVX. That way, I could run the new bits on a different machine when I needed that functionality.

[Mario]

Way to much complexity for the handful of users who works on systems without AVX.
I make a special version of IMatch Anywhere, because this software is often run on low-end computers. But that makes now 7 (!) different versions of IMatch Anywhere alone.

[deLaBoetie]

Thanks, understand you have other priorities. Congratulations on the new Face reco aspect which is fast and accurate, and which I'd been wanting a long time, looking forward to bending my head around the auto-tagging services next.

[deejayw]

I'm running v2019.8.4. I have 2 PCs, neither of which have AVX.
Your upgrade mentions critical updates. Are any of these applicable to v2019 and if so,will you be releasing updates ?
I guess I'm asking,"when does support for 2019 stop?"